Best CP-16 Outboard Motor for the Money ?

[JBC]

Like Shawn mentioned in an earlier post, I use a Suzuki 2.5.  Mine is a 4-stroke, has neutral, and hands-down is one of the most reliable outboards I've owned.  Like other very small motors, there is no reverse.  But to get that, too, add another 20 lbs or so, at least for a 4 stroke.  I accepted the trade off for a lighter, cheaper motor that almost always fires up with the first pull, even after sitting in a cold garage all winter with no "winterizing."  And in neutral, the motor stays running while flipping it 180 degrees for reverse.

[skip1930]

I had a private message asking about O/B's for his CP-16. And he had a engine mount problem.
So I responded...

I can not make a 100% perfect recommendation for an outboard engine to hang on the transom of a CP-16.
But here I go. No more than 5 hp. No less then 3 hp. No electric. If you can handle the idea of a SeaGull British O/B...naa forget that. No parts or dealer support even though the engine is well thought out for powering sailboats. Mostly because of their special four blade prop.

A two cycle, only because two cycles are lighter in weight. When I bought my used 1986 CP-19 with a Harkin '0-0' furler from Yacht Works they hung a new zero time Mercury 5 hp two stroke short shaft from the factory motor mount. I really like this outboard. Runs well with the exception of air getting between the fuel tank hose and the 'pug-in' to the engine connection. I fixed that with some silicone Rescue Tape. That sealed things up. The 10% Ethanol has fagged out the rubbers in the crankshaft, pulse activated fuel pump, and I need a new set.

I have noticed that this 5 hp drives the CP-19 at 5.4 to 6.7 knots. About as fast as I have ever achived with all the canvas hung out in a good blow. So the sails make 5 hp?
Might be a guide to picking an engine for a CP-16. Four hp = CP-16 full speed Sail power?  We should ask the group.

The less weight astern the better and faster the boat sails. So 4hp. I will say that a gear selection, fwd-N-Rev is a must. No spinning the engine around 360 degrees for reverse. I think Nissan has that spinny thing. Briggs and Straten use to make an air cooled 5 hp F-N-R four cycle O/B that looked really good to me. A lawn mower engine. That's the ticket. Very simple.

I think two cycles have been legislated out of existence. More liberal crap! Four cycles may have an oil sump and that needs to be changed. Probably an oil pump along with a water pump. More weight. More to go wrong. And more to pay for.

The fit. I had the same problem with raise and tilt. I made an additional aluminium mounting plate that positioned the original phenolic mounting block two inches lower, and two inches further back off the transom. The two inch blocks were cut from vibration absorbing rubber. Because mine is a short shaft the exhaust port rise's out the water when I go fwd. No big deal.

This year I'm going to cut new and longer horizontial arms from my changed-out rudder blade for the motor mount and that will push the engine further off the transom. This gives me more human arm leverage to steer, and longer mouting arms will also lower the engine further into the water. I'm not worried about over stressing the mount since it is rated foir 25 hp. So let's lengthen it. Same springs, same spacers, same fasteners.

Further off the transom will allow the motor to tilt up to the rub rail easier. Presently I have to turn the engine 90 degrees to achieve full tilt. I do have pictures of the mount on CPYOA and in my Photobucket link below each post.

That's about all.

skip.

[mikew]

Al, consider the Yamaha 2.5 motor as well. It is 4 stroke, weighs 37 lbs and has a forward / neutral shift.
I was looking at your comparison - check out cylinder displacement as well, kind of a value of engine power.
Suzuki- 68 cc
Yamaha-72 cc
Tohatsu- 85 cc
The Tohatsu 2.5 and 3.5 share the same weight 41 lbs and engine displacement, the only difference is the higher RPM's of the 3.5 hp. to 6000 rpm.
So it may be the same block, with a bigger carb. What I am getting at is that the 2.5 may have the same low end torque as the 3.5 HP. ( Most of us get hull speed at low throttle settings.)
Also the new Honda is now 2.3 HP (57 cc)  with a larger gas tank then before.
Mike

[kickingbug1]

  2 to 4 horsepower-2 stroke with neutral----reverse not needed----keep the weight down------boy i love that old cruise-n-carry

[Salty19]

I agree with kicknbug.   

Stay small and 2-stroke if possible.

It's worth it to buy an older model and fix it up rather than to deal with these new 4 stroke outboards, IMO. 

I really loathed our old Nissan 6hp 4stroke (same as Tohatsu).  Didn't start easily, fouled plugs, vibrated badly, was loud and had no torque at lower speeds.  It wasn't in bad condition, on the contrary it was almost new.  I also think the 6hp rating was an exageration...I would beleive 4 but not 6hp.

[wes]

Should we have a contest to determine who loathes his/her Tohatsu 4-stroke outboard more? Mine has let me down more times than I can count. It's particular favorite trick is clogged jets. And it's noisy, and vibrates to beat the band, just like Salty says. Unfortunately mine was well cared for by the previous two owners (damn them!) and so it's in nice clean condition and my wife doesn't understand why I hate it so. I have taken to leaving it unlocked at the marina, in the hope that someone will steal it. No luck so far.

Wes

[Shawn]

"I really loathed our old Nissan 6hp 4stroke (same as Tohatsu).  Didn't start easily, fouled plugs, vibrated badly, was loud and had no torque at lower speeds.  It wasn't in bad condition, on the contrary it was almost new.  I also think the 6hp rating was an exageration...I would beleive 4 but not 6hp."


Did you have the proper prop on it? The torque curve of a 4 stroke is different than a 2 stroke. With the wrong prop the engine can't get up to full RPM and therefor can't generate full power output. There is a big thread online about this specifically talking about the Tohatsu 6hp engine on a sailboat.

My 6hp Tohatsu (with elephant ears prop that comes with the Sailpro) has been fantastic. Starts easily (even after months of sitting), idles much slower than the 2 stroke it replaced, drives the boat well and uses much less fuel compared to the old 2 stroke. Only time I had any problem with it was when I overfilled the crankcase slightly, the resulted in fouling the plug and poor running. The excess oil found its way up the PCV and into the carb which is why the plug fouled.

Shawn

[Bob23]

Wes:
   That vibration could come in handy. If the 2 bolts were to "mysteriously" loosen, it might vibrate itself right off the motor mount while over very deep water...Strange how things happen, eh?
bob23

[wes]

Bob - I love the way you think. But my new plan is to sell it to Shawn....

[Shawn]

"But my new plan is to sell it to Shawn...."

Humm.... lets see... I have the Tohatsu Sailpro, a Tanaka 3hp air cooled 2 stroke with dual stage centrifugal clutch, a Suzuki 2.5hp 4 stroke, a '68 British Seagull 40+, a '69 British Seagull Silver Century Plus Longshaft (with clutch) and a '79 British Seagull Forty Plus (with CD ignition, sealed gear housing and clutch)... yeah... there is room for more.

Shawn

[Solid_Tude]

Should we have a contest to determine who loathes his/her Tohatsu 4-stroke outboard more? Mine has let me down more times than I can count. It's particular favorite trick is clogged jets. And it's noisy, and vibrates to beat the band, just like Salty says. Unfortunately mine was well cared for by the previous two owners (damn them!) and so it's in nice clean condition and my wife doesn't understand why I hate it so. I have taken to leaving it unlocked at the marina, in the hope that someone will steal it. No luck so far.

Wes

My now 4 year old Tohatsu 4-stroke 2.5 hp runs perfectly, starts easily and doesn't vibrate any more than other outboards that size. Although, the previous owner bought the Tohatsu, I find it to be a fine motor so far and I've run Honda's most recently on my fishing boat.  My only complaint on it is that it tends to drip out fuel if it is put up in the tilted up position when full of fuel.  That is probably just that "O" ring in the cap that is not seating right and should be easily replaced.  For only rated 2.5 hp it pushes my CP16 over 5 knots and sips fuel.  What more do you want?

[skip1930]

It's particular favorite trick is clogged jets For only rated 2.5 hp it pushes my CP16 over 5 knots and sips fuel.  What more do you want?

So the sails on a CP-16 make about 2-1/2+ hp?

Ethanol/oil green gelatinous material? Yep been there on the water pulling my main metering jet out and removing the stuff.
A piece of copper wire pull out of a chunk of stranded wire, ragged out, blow en out with a plastic flexible air tube. [Don't leave the dock without some].
A straw will do. A can of WD-40, anything to get things moving.

Best not to use that kind of gas with 10~15%, AKA Flex Fuel another bad liberal and expensive idea that does nothing but makes one feel all warm and fuzzy trying to do something about a nonexistent problem. Ohhh sorry I digress.

skip.

[Salty19]

Shawn, yep I think we had the high torque prop on it (I'm trying to recall what size it actually was).   Still made little difference in performance (I tried both).  Maybe it wasn't the right prop??

It's possible our old Nissan had some issues that was causing the vibration and low power.  No matter, I'm treating the Yamaha as if it needs to last me 40 years.   Actually I'm secretly looking for a 5hp 2 stroke Yamaha but..shhh...don't tell the admiral . 

[Shawn]

Salty,

"Maybe it wasn't the right prop??"

That is what I think. I'll see if I can dig up the Tohatsu thread I was talking about. Basically a person tried the 6hp on a 25 or 26' sailboat and had the same complaints as you. They tried a higher thrust prop on it and it was better but still not great. When they ended up with the elephant ears prop (Tohatsu makes 2 different high thrust props for the 6hp) it changed their opinion on the engine. The 6hp Sailpro (elephant ears prop) drives my 23 just fine and easily replaced an 8hp 2 cylinder, 2 stroke.

In a nutshell with the wrong prop the engine couldn't get up to max RPM and therefor wasn't making full power. As I recall it was only getting up to something like 3500 RPM instead of the maximum of 6000 rpm. HP is calculated by (torque X RPM) / 5252. Engine is rated at 6hp at 6000 rpm. That works out to about 5.25 foot pounds of torque at 6000 rpm. If we assume a flat torque curve (unlikely but it is just for demonstration) and calculate HP...

(5.25 ft/lbs x 3500 rpm) /5252 = 3.5hp

Around what you were estimating.

The Tohatsu does vibrate more than the 2 cylinder but that is just the nature of forces balancing in a single cylinder vs a 2 cylinder engine.

Shawn

[kickingbug1]

   shawn have i got a deal for you. a (year unknown) goodyear 5 horse. this thing is sweet. it sat in a corner of my grandpas cabin for like 33 years and i finally brought it home. (something to do when the snow flies. it has one thing going for it. when i was maybe 16 or so the old man tried to get it running. he thought it wasnt getting enough "spark" so he held the spark plug wire while i pulled the starter rope. well, it did have "spark". if he would have had hair i imagine it would have stood up. all he said was "might be a carb problem". i think ill try and get it running just for the hell of it. by the way he was an "oar" man.