Honda 2 HP: Long or Short Shaft - External Fuel Tank Ideas

[Pacman]

I plan to buy a Honda BF2D outboard for my C-16.

My question is whether I should buy a short shaft(15") or long shaft (20") version.

It looks to me like a long shaft would place the propeller above the keel depth so hitting bottom should not be a factor.

I am biased toward the longer shaft to keep the propeller in the water in wave conditions when the stern would rise and fall with the waves.  My little Evenrude Duck Twin would sometimes come out of the water in heavy waves.

Have any of you used a Honda 2HP?  

If so, which one and how did it work for you?

Advice and recommendations would be appreciated.

[Billy]

My friend has one on his Cape Dory 18.
2hp is plenty for a 16
Great reliable motor, but don't like the automatic clutch. Can't rev it and no reverse. Everything else is great.

As far as shaft length...
1st. Where do you sail? If you got big waves, go with the Long. In a lake? Go short.

If you only use it to get in and out of a channel or marina, go with the short. Are you a serious sailor? Then go with the short.

Shorter cost less, unless $ doesn't matter. Shorter is lighter too. Easier to lift out of the water.

Only need the long in a heavy chop. How often do you go out in rough water?

[Pacman]

I do want it to work in rough weather. 

I sail on the Gulf Coast where weather is usually mild but, when it kicks up, it can be rough.

Sounds like the long shaft will be best for me.

Thanks

[Bob23]

Get the long shaft. If it's too long, it'll still work fine. If the short shaft is too short, well, it'll always be too short. I'd like to have an extra long shaft on my Nissan outboard but I'm stuck with my long shaft.
Just my opinion,
Bob23

[Pacman]

Bob23,

That makes sense to me.

If the prop is too deep in the water, I can simply add some height to the motor mount board to compensate for that.

In addition, the powerhead will be farther from the surface of the water and will stay drier on rough weather.

Thanks again.

Dave

[sailen69]

Packman,
I am happy with the long shaft for my CP-16.  Some pros and cons with this motor for me are:  + It is light weight, easy and fast to install and remove from the transom.  It is around 30 Lbs.  Lighter weight on the transom helps sailing performance.  Now that I have a gas motor I don't have to think about the charge on the battery or conserving that charge just to get home.  It's a 4 stroke, no oil to mix.  I always put the left over gas into my car and get some good fresh gas on my next trip to the lake.  The long shaft lets me keep the power unit higher in calm water giving me easy access to operate and spin the motor around for reverse.  That long shaft will fit on other boats if I keep the motor and sell the boat.  (only for another COM-PAC)  It is air cooled, no impeller issues.  -  A reverse would be nice, but added weight too.  No idea how much fuel is in the tank?  Most trips it doesn't matter, I am just getting in and out from the dock.  I learned to check the tank after around 45min of run time, before I get close to the dock or marina.  Not the best place to run out of gas.  The noise, it is air cooled...  It is not bad when just pushing in or out from the dock.  It is something to put up with for a longer motor trip.  A bigger motor might not rev so high to push the boat and may get better fuel usage.  
All around an easy to service motor.  Mine has been very reliable and a good fit on my CP-16.  2HP has been good for the conditions I sail in.  Good luck and good sailing!
Rich

[racer129]

Great motor but I feel it still too small for any open water or driving into a current or chop. Look at 3.5 or 4. You can balance out the weight vector by placing a heavy battery forward of the compression post. Bill

[DaveE]

The good points of the Honda 2hp long shaft have been nicely covered. By the way the tank holds 0.26 US gallons, as someone pointed out, it is enough for over a 45 min or more run.  As a trailer sailor what pleases me is the fact that due to the light weight I can just leave it mounted all season, using the end of the main sheet, I just cinch it up tight to the boat when I'm on the road.   
If you single sail, you will find that your weight will hold the prop  at the right level in relatively calm waters and you can put the mount in the down position when it gets choppy.  I also have a 6hp Suzuki but never use it anymore in my (lake) area.

[rdcvsmith]

FYI - yes, there is no reverse gear, you just do a quick 180 degree rotation and flip the throttle handle over.
-Ray

[JBC]

Having owned several ComPac 16s, and several motors, short and long shafts, I have several observations.  With the standard outboard mounts that came with these boats, short shaft motors will work fine most of the time.  But I don't sail my 16s in ocean swells, so I'm unable to comment on their effect.  What I do know is that if I'm by myself and jump up to the bow to do anything with the short shaft fully down in the water, it almost surfaces (I can hear the change), and in any chop, the prop will pop out of the water some in that situation.  For that reason, I prefer a long shaft.

But there are other issues.  Since the mainsheet block mounted on the stern is on the same side as the motor mount, there can be some issues with a long shaft if tilted forward to clear the prop when sailing.  I don't have to do this with my short shaft...just pulling up the mount and leaving the motor in a vertical position works without dragging the prop when sailing.  But with a tilted motor, snags with the mainsheet happen sometimes when tacking/gybing if I fully tilt the motor to stay out of the water.

Finally, I've not tried the Honda 2 hp 4 stroke.  It sounds like a solid performer.  I have an old Honda 5 hp 4 stroke long shaft, which is way too heavy (over 60 lbs) for the 16 in my opinion, so I sail with a 2.5 4 stroke short shaft Suzuki, which I love.  Besides, add to that Honda 5 weight a full tank of gas in the stern, and the weight is even more.  And though I have a standard battery (24 group) in the bow area, the larger motors are still too heavy IMO.

But I will say I hate to have to fill the Suzuki's small internal tank while on the run if, for any reason, I need to resort to motoring any distance.  Usually, the conditions aren't that great and filling that little tank when the boat is rocking ain't my idea of fun!  So, if someone would only design a 4 hp long shaft, 4 stroke that weighs 30 pounds or so and has an external tank....

[Pacman]

JBC

Your observations are spot on.

I went ahead and purchased a long shaft yesterday.

It looks like the long shaft will not drag in the water while sailing if I raise the block on my motor mount a few inches as is discussed in the Honda Owners' Manual.  That will avoid the conflict with the main sheet that would result from using the tilt feature.

Fueling while underway in a chop is a valid concern.  However, I don't expect to do much of that and I am already working on a refueling system. 

The present design concept is to use a 1 gallon jerry jug with proper fittings for a hose and squeeze ball to fill the tank on the motor through a modified fuel tank cap.   The fuel tank cap would have a second fitting for a clear return hose so that when the tank is full, fuel will be visible in the return line.  No spills that way.

The filling procedure I envision is:
1. Close the vent on the fuel tank
2. Pump fuel from the jerry jug into the tank until fuel is visible in the return line
3. Open the vent on the fuel tank to allow air into the tank
4. Resume normal operation

The modified fuel tank cap would be replaced with an unmodified one for transport and storage.

This is just the first iteration so please offer any comments or recommendations.

Thanks

[JBC]

Pacman,

I'll be very interested in learning how your clever idea works out.  Let us know.

[Pacman]

A second, less complicated design concept:

With the fuel tank cap vent closed, as the motor runs a vacuum is created.

That vacuum in the fuel tank could be used to draw fuel through a single hose from the fuel tank cap to a 1 gallon jerry jug as long as the jerry jug is vented.

The fuel tank on the motor would remain full at all times because, as fuel is used, fuel from the jerry jug would be siphoned into the tank by the vacuum.

In effect, I would be moving the fuel tank vent from the fuel tank to the jerry jug.

This idea came to me as I remembered having my motorcycle stall after wax plugged the vent in the gas cap.  When I opened the gas cap I heard a "whoosh" as air entered the tank and the bike started right up.

Right now, I like the second idea better due to its elegant simplicity but I am still considering the problem.

What do you think?

[skip1930]

I think you need a FWD-N-REV gear box. I wished a few times for a long shaft on my Mercury 5 hp 2 cycle short shaft, as the exhaust note is no longer muffled under water when I walk to the CP-19 bow. I should lighten up. Like that's going to happen!

The one thing about a long shaft is you may not be able to extrapolate the prop out of the water 100% with the motor mount tilted back and then the prop will whine, splash, and beat the water as the prop free wheels in the wake. Makes for a noisy sail. That kind of bugs me.

Two hp will move you along. Hopefully at about 5~to 7 knots. About as much as the sails will. On a good day. Winds-tide-current-waves will adjust this speed.

skip.

[Pacman]

I have already bought the long shaft motor so that question is answered. 

Now I am on to finding a solution that will allow refueling the motor from an external fuel tank while underway.