IPad2 for navigation

[Greene]

Yup, you are right.  The basic iPad will try to locate you using the local wifi signals that it is seeing, but it is hit and miss at best.  I wanted one without the GPS for two reasons.  First it is cheaper to buy one without GPS and add-on a Bluetooth GPS.  Secondly,  the reviews for the Bluetooth GPS performance were better than the built in ones.  You can locate the Bluetooth unit outside the cabin and get a less obstructed view of the sky.  I posted a couple pics of the one I purchased on our blog a couple of days ago.  Take a look if you are interested.  The Bluetooth unit placed us about 5' or less from where we were sitting in our living room when we first booted it up.
 
Mike

[Shawn]

Mike,

"The basic iPad will try to locate you using the local wifi signals that it is seeing, but it is hit and miss at best."

And I believe that is only when you are on a wifi network to begin with so that it can try and cross reference. Out in a boat without a data network I assume that functionality is useless.

Glad to hear the Bluetooth unit is working for you. iNavX is a nice program, it can do a lot.

Shawn

[deisher6]

Hey:
I am a year or so behind on topics that are becoming pertinent to me at the present time.  Are there any more current thoughts on this thread?

I am looking at the Raymarine A series chartplotter with a 5.7 inch screen.  I do not like the price at around $850 including cables and mount or the.  So I was thinking about an iPad either loose in the cockpit or swing mounted in the hatchway.

I currently have a new Raymarine P70, ACU100, EV1, coupled to a Mk2 4000 wheel drive.  It was a priority to get the autohelm working so I could go solo.  The A series would integrate nicely with this system.  BTW I have an extra new Mk2 4000 wheel drive if anyone is interested.  

I was going to sail from New Bern to Oriental this past Wednesday, wound up motoring in pretty thick fog.  Navigated with a chart, compass, and a Garmin Nuvi 500 from our truck.  I have been too cheap to buy charts for the Nuvi so I kept the boat in the large black area, which was pretty accurate on a large scale.  The experience moved the chartplotter up on my priority list.  

The sail back on Tuesday was great.

I appreciate your comments and guidance.

regards charlie

[Craig]

We have iSailGPS(App) on our IPad and it works like a charm with the built-in gps. I believe some tablets & phones without gps use cell towers for location. Don't think WiFi networks would provde reliable location (unless you are logged on). 

[Greene]

I've found INAVX to be a good application for the iPad.  My problem is with the iPad display itself.  In the sunshine (even under the Bimini) the display just blanks out.  Has anyone had better luck with the newer iPad versions?  I have the iPad 2 and am considering upgrading to the new Air version.

Mike

[Jason]

Hi

I take paper charts and compass, an old reliable gps (doesn't have topo but gives you coordinates) and the iPhone with the navionics app.  The navionics app works great.  Also have an anchor alarm app.

Jason

[jthatcher]

Many of you may have seen this article posted on duckworks...  " The second most dangerous thing aboard"   http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/13/howto/charts/index.htm#.UqSaro2SIng

it generated lots of discussion on the duckworks forum..     the fellow writing the article is from Active Captain.   ( there may be a bit of a conflict of interest)     His assertion is that the most dangerous thing aboard is a fixed schedule.   I tend to agree that allowing decisions to be made on a pre-arranged  schedule rather than on current conditions poses significant danger for those of us in small boats.     the point of the article, however, is that paper charts are the second most dangerous thing aboard.    Clearly , this guy likes electronics!   

But, after my trip this summer aboard Adagio,  single handed..   I have to wonder about the value of having paper charts aboard..   there really is no nav station on a compac 23   -  i had them on one of the settee berths, but, as the only one aboard,  there was no way that i could go below and check them out with spray coming into the cockpit every 12 - 15 seconds..   i had the hatch and companion way closed up..    the one chart that did make some sense  was a plastic coated one that I have of Barnegat bay, but there was no navigating in the true sense of drawing lines on the charts and following a course..     I basically needed to know what direction to look in order to spot the next  day mark.   

I have a hand held gps  which was probably the most useful in that it is easy to handle,  waterproof,  and relatively reliable.    So I am wondering about  coastal piloting in a small boat, single handed..    would a hand held  chart plotter be the best  device to have on board?      The screens are incredibly small, but   it beats having a swingout  plotter in the cabin which would necessitate having the  hatch and hatchboards out of the way...    not very practical  in any kind of weather on a cp 23..    I am also  not too interested in adding more stuff that will take up room in the cabin, and which will add a drain to the battery..  ( and my wallet)      my goal is to sail as simply as possible.   

does anyone have experience with a hand held chart plotter?     jt

[Bob23]

I think paper charts are a must. JT- maybe you need one of these:

B23

[Jason]

hi,

As has been mentioned above, the small screen on handheld devices is a drawback, as is relying on anything electronic.  We took paper charts and compass to insure against over-reliance on electronics on our trip around Washington and Rock Islands this summer (a beautiful area, but one with cold water, full of rocky lee shores and unpredictable wind and chop, thus a place to take safety very seriously).  That said, for navigation we plotted our strategy on the chart, but used the iphone with the US Navionics App as our "chartplotter"  it worked perfect for us in the CP16 and could be quickly thrown in a ziplock when the spray came up, and in those cases we used the compass to ensure we stayed on course.  So overall, for my needs now, I will keep using the iphone/navionics app.  We will be headed up around Poverty and Summer Islands this summer.  I think that the electronics added to our safety overall, as do other electronics such as VHF radios and nav lights; the key is to maintain the heck out of gear.   For that matter, as with electronics, mechanical gear will fail if not maintained.

For safety I would agree that following a pre-set schedule, or put another way: forcing yourself to stick with a preset schedule when faced with bad or uncooperative weather, is one of the more dangerous courses out there to chart!

Jason

[deisher6]

Thank you for all the comments:

I do not have an IPhone, I use a KMart trac phone.

Back to the IPad:  Does the IPad gps functionality depend on WiFi or telecommunications connectivity?  OR, does it work just like a handheld gps and receive data directly from the satellites?  (This is probably a question for Apple.)

Great point on the IPad legibility in sunlight.

I too require waterproof or water proofed gear that can be used in the cockpit and sailing solo.

Again thanks.  regards charlie

[Salty19]

Deisher,

Here's the scoop on the iPad2 and navigation functions.

-They support Wi-Fi.  You have to be within range of a Wi-Fi access point, and on the water this is impossible with today's technology.
In your living room with a wireless access point in your house, sure they work great.

-They may or may not support 3G and 4G, depending on which iPad model you buy.  If you go to Verizon or AT&T and buy an iPad with cellular data (3G/4G) capabilities, you'll pay extra every month for that capability, and any GPS app that has to talk to the wireless towers will only work when you're within range of the tower.  It determines your location by triangulating you between several towers.
This means if there is a lot of horizon around you, or the distance between towers is too large, or obstructions prevent the signal from reaching you, it will not be able to triangulate.  Meaning, it can be inaccurate, even when you think "It should be picking me up, I'm in the middle of a suburb".   My wife has a non-3G/4G iPad, but I have one with cellular that work pays for.  Mine works fine most of the time on our small lake near a big suburb outside a large city. But occasionally it is not accurate. It will be far less accurate as you get out of range of the newer 3g/4g towers.  I would absolutely not trust it for navigation on a big lake, mountainous region, dense city, remote or coastal areas.  

-GPS.  Ipads don't have built in GPS capability.  But you can use a Bluetooth enabled wireless receiver to "talk" to the iPad and tell it coordinates. The nav apps will see the GPS automatically and use it.   This is by far the best way to go for accuracy and a reliable way to update coordinates in more conditions (unlike using 3G/4G, which won't always work at all, and sometimes the wrong location).  Of course you have to power or recharge the receiver too.

Something like this should work well for you. Shop around and do some research on them.

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/8364

You're going to need a way to keep it charged while sailing if out for more than a few hours (tough to say for sure how many).

Waterproofing..there are clear waterproof cases available.  I don't know what type of water you sail in, but I would think one on a swivel just inside the cabin, in the companionway opening, would be OK.  You'll need some way to keep it from sliding around if you use it in the cockpit.  One unexpected wind gust will send these slippery iPads flying. They are tough but not indestructible.

[deisher6]

Thanks Salty, all the scoop needed and great URL for reference.
regards charlie

[Craig]

Despite all the high tech gps stuff, there is no reason to go to sea without a REAL chart.   Every boat should have a chart of their local cruising waters aboard!

[Greene]

We absolutely agree.  The electronic version is a tool - the paper charts are safety devices. As we study navigation we alternate solving the workbooks questions on the iPad and the paper charts.  While sailing we have both paper charts and an electronic device out at the same time.  This way we will be comfortable with using both methods.

Mike and B

[brackish]

To me, Salty's great synopsis is enough for me to keep my SH 180i GPS working and properly charted. 

I agree that you should always acquire paper charts for the areas that you sail.  I've found, that on the Gulf, many of the marinas have give away copies of NOAA charts that can be used and discarded when you return from the area.  However, if I could only have one or the other, I would have the GPS chartplotter.  A paper chart is great for the big picture, but there is no quick way for you to know exactly where YOU are on that chart and that is essential.  In any conditions where visibility of navigation markers is limited such as fog or storms, or even night when the markers become obscured or confused by traffic, the paper chart becomes of limited value.  Additionally if you are sailing in shoal waters, knowing exactly where you are in relation to the shoals is essential.  Often when your depth finder gives you a clue, it is too late.  I've had experience ranging from RDF/ADF through LORAN and on to GPS, and the GPS chartplotter is essential not necessarily for ocean crossings where celestial can be used, but for coastal access.  The debate could go on all day about the value of paper charts, but I've made enough blind approaches to know that GPS is not just a tool but an essential instrument, much like instruments used by pilots in IFR conditions.  Just my opinion but based on nearly 50 years of sailing.  Back at the beginning of that span, long before GPS, I've gotten to lay off enough approaches during fogs or storms to be a big believer in the absolute value of the technology, and I wouldn't rely on anything that might be occasionally not usable, such as a tablet or a paper chart.