Boom Gooseneck Fitting

[oddduck]

dlane83,

With all due respect, I think you are waaay overthinking it.  There is no substitute for getting out in the boat and actually experiencing what happens with the standard rig and rigging.  I'm quite sure that most, if not all, of those who made and are making changes have done so incrementally - that's part of the fun! 

Dennis
Suncat Odd Duck

[Tom Ray]

Capt Nemo,

I am wondering if the pad eye could be used to set the position of the boom for my modified sail configuration idea.  I would need a way to keep the boom fixed at this height.  Do you think the downhaul or just a piece of line could be used to tie the boom down in this position and keep it from lifting up off the pad eye?  In addition, do you know how high off the deck the boom is when it is resting on the pad eye?

Thanks, Don L

Don L, Don N (Nemo) replied that you could use the downhaul to hold the boom down at the padeye, but the pulley would be in the way. My solution to that would be to eliminate the pulley and shackle the boom down to the padeye directly, if you want it to always be in that position, even when sailing.

When resting on pad eye and boom gallows, the boom barely clears the cabin, Maybe an inch or two. With the sail up, you would want the sail to lift the aft end of the boom above the gallows, so clearance would be higher.

I have to agree with Dennis' comment on overthinking. Yes, you can put a deck sweeping main on a Sun Cat. Working out the details of a sail that extends below the factory sail would not be difficult, and the rig is strong enough to do what you are thinking of doing. Just my opinion, not trying to run you off or anything. We like answering questions and exploring ideas about the boat, so if you have more, bring them on.

[capt_nemo]

dlane83,

Went to the boat today and I have good news for you. The boom gooseneck does rest on the top of the padeye as shown in the following photo.




I tightened the Downhaul and found that it does hold the boom down in the fixed position knocking the block out of the way to permit the gooseneck to rest on top of the padeye as shown in this photo. Could not physically lift the boom up with Downhaul tightened.




ON MY BOAT with the boom gooseneck resting on top of the pad eye and boom end on the gallows the pad eye center is 12" above the cabin top and the bottom of the sliding gooseneck and bottom of the boom are both about 12 1/2" above the cabin top as shown in this photo. I disagree with Tom Ray in that there is still enough room, several inches in fact, to actually open the cabintop hatch for ventilation. Hope this helps.  capt_nemo

[dlane83]

Hey Capt Nemo,

Great job and pics.  That was very helpful.  I now have a good understanding of what would be involved with changing the sail if I were to decide to.  If I wanted the boom to be a little higher than the height of the pad eye, I could either move the pad eye and tap new holes to screw it in place or I could screw a separate stopper into the slot at the desired height.  From various pictures I have seen of Sun Cats with the sails in the stored position (presumably resting on the pad eye), I also have an idea of the slope the boom would have. 

Thanks also to everyone else who commented and helped me understand how the rig is configured.

Don L 

[Tom Ray]

After further review, Don N is right about the clearance. This is (I think) a 4" plastic putty knife on top of my hatch, so I'd guess the clearance above the hatch at almost 5" if the boom is rotated as shown. If you wanted the boom to stay at that height, you could just eliminate the downhaul line and block and shackle the gooseneck slide directly to the padeye.





Clearance is a bit lower over the companionway hatch - about 4 inches.

[cavie]

I offer a different solution. My boat dodn't have a downhaul when I aquired it and I have no intention of installing one. I love the Suncat Kiss method of rigging. I pull up the boom and install the long pin thru the eye at the bottom of the slide and leave it there. Can't go up, can't go down. luff tention is done with the main haylard. Work well enough for a 2nd place finish at the Nationals. I use the block and spinlock on the left side for my lazyjacks.

[bfelton]

Adding one suggestion to the last post.  Control the luff tension with a cunningham.  That is what I ordered on my new sail that is coming some time in March. 

Fixing the boom position currently doesn't work because my old sail will not clear the boom gallows.

Bert

[tmolik]

I've looked everywhere  for a picture of the SunCat "long pin" near the gooseneck....I know it's purpose...but I've never seen one...ANYONE have a picture of his elusive item...please feel free to email pictures to me....tmolik@earthlink.net....

I have a 2001 SunCat

Thanks

Tom Molik   

[Craig]

Your pin may be missing.

[Niantic Mike]

Looking at this thread now, has anyone actually tried sailing with the boom shackled to the pad eye? I'm debating it!

[bruce]

Interesting thread, don't think I've read it before.

The answer is of course you can shackle to the pad eye. The pad eye is just clamped by the machine screws to the mast track. You could remove the pad eye entirely and fix the boom gooseneck even lower, weld it in place, or whatever. As long as it's below the hinge, with enough room on the mast track to stow the sail slugs and gaff gooseneck below the hinge, you could still fold the mast down.

What are you trying to accomplish? Lower the boom so it bumps your head more often, make it so a bimini is harder to deploy, have a sail with a longer luff? As Tom says, the hinge weakens the mast. Com-Pac shipped all of their catboats undercanvassed, probably at least in part for increased headroom. The Marshall Sandpiper, with a LWL of 17.5', carries 253 sq.ft. vs the Sun Cat's 150 sq.ft. You could fly a bigger sail, but at significant additional stress to the rig.

For sail shape, the luff needs to be tensioned. The stock set up allows the sail to be set in a range higher or lower on the mast, the boom gooseneck is typically just above the hinge. If you want the sail to be set even lower, then it can be done as you suggest.

BTW, the whole discussion about the long pin is moot. It was never intended to secure the boom gooseneck while underway.

[Niantic Mike]

Hi Bruce

Thanks.

As far as reasoning, I would want it to more resemble a classic catboat, like a Sanderling where the boom is fixed much lower. I'm more form over function kind of guy, so I'll suffer if I consider the overall look of the boat to be improved.

Mike

[bruce]

Gotcha. I see your post about the gallows as well.

I don't recall anyone trying this, but it could be fun experiment. I don't recall how easily the boom gallow's bolts at the deck as accessed, but you could remove the gallows at least temporarily as you worked things out. Eventually you could rig a crutch, or just go with a topping lift, and/or lazy jacks, and let the boom fall where it may in the cockpit when those lines are slack.

The boom gooseneck can go much lower as discussed, without permanent changes to see if you like it.

You'll still have a lot more freeboard to contend with. All of Com-Pacs catboats sit high in the water, nothing low slung about them. We test sailed the Marshall Sandpiper 15 and the Menger 15 before we bought our PC, the other two catboats with tabernacles in production at the time. Both sit much lower in the water, the Menger 15 especially so. We preferred the higher boom and comfortable benches with good storage on the PC. The boat sails dryer with more freeboard.

Another non-catboat feature of the Com-Pac line is the use of a high-aspect rudder vs. the old barn boor style. Much less weather helm with the high-aspect rudder. I wouldn't carry your makeover that far!

Look wise, I preferred the Sandpiper, and on a mooring I might have gone for it, but for dry sailing, berthed in the garage, and the comfort and ease of sailing, the PC was the easy winner for us.

[Niantic Mike]

I'll be honest, I have the SC because it was free and I wanted a catboat and the next cheapest around was $4000 for a Herreshoff 18. Do I like it? Yes. But I want to make some changes aesthetically.

I did use a shackle to hold down the boom at the eye. You lose some visibility when motoring with the sail cover.

I don't intend to change the rudder, except for maybe the rudder craft high performance foiled rudder since it draws less for my shallow slip.

[bruce]

I forgot about the free part. 4K for a Herreshoff 18 sounds like it needed some work. I've seen several reports about problems with the CB.

As you know, an 18' catboat is good condition won't be cheap. But, in your makeover, I would not make significant permanent changes to your Sun Cat with the eye that if you found a good deal on a catboat more to your style you could sell the Sun Cat that you've brought back to serviceable condition.

Another thought, since you're in CT you aren't far from Marshall Marine. Geoff Marshall is a great guy, and an advocate for catboat boats in general, not just his own models. He might know of a project boat that he wouldn't want to deal with, but that has potential. You don't want to waste his time, but he loves talking about catboats. He saw our PC at the 2011 Catboat Association meeting, on display as were several of his boats. He was interested in what boat beat out his Sandpiper, and had a good chat with the broker who was showing our boat.