Pintle slack

[nicktulloh]

My new-to-me 19/2 rudder has a ton of slop in it. How much is acceptable? I tried different size bolts - 3/8" was too big and 5/16" was very sloppy. Metric 10mm and 8mm the same (I couldn't find a 9mm to try). Are they normally bushed?

[wes]

There are several previous threads on this site - a common problem as the relatively hard bolts rotate in the relatively soft cast aluminum. The fix is to drill out the holes with a long drill bit (both holes at once, to preserve alignment), then press in a set of bronze bushings and install new stainless bolts. Presto, she steers like a Mercedes. A few of us (me, and Skip who thought up the idea) also have had the cast aluminum pintle and gudgeon powder coated. I did mine in black; cost me $75 at the local powder coating place. Combine this with the foiled (Ida) rudder upgrade and you have a sweet setup.

- Wes

[rdcvsmith]

This is deffinately on my "winter to-do list" as well !
I have some major "play" or "slop" as you called it,   . . .it drives me nuts!!

I will search threads for some specific drill and bushing sizes to look for unless someone knows off the top of their head what we should use.

Thanks
Ray

[Bob23]

  Part of the problem is the mix of very dissimiliar metals- aluminum, bronze and stainless steel. I sail in salt water and it is a problem. I've added zincs to the rudder blade, the stainless bolts and the rudder housing and it seems to have helped. I also grease the bolts when they are installed in the spring. I may add grease fittings to the housing and gudgeon also.
  I'm planning to switch to bronze bolts instead of stainless. I had to replace the gudgeon a few years ago and it didn't last very long because of the corrosion due to salt water and the above metals. The aluminum gudgoen, being the least noble, corroded first. Most of the corrosion was the lower ear of the gudgeon being the closest to the salt water.
  We'll see how it is this fall when my boat is pulled next week. I've also tried to isolate some of the parts with nylon washers and bushings.
  bob23

[skip1930]

Zero slop is acceptable

Drill, bush and bolt.

1/2 bit for drilling, Four 1/2" o.s. shoulder bronze bushings back to back, x 7/8" long. 8 flat washers, 2 ss bolts, 2 nyloc nuts, nuts up.

All from ACE Hardware. $14.00.  

skip.

[nicktulloh]

Zero slop is acceptable

Drill, bush and bolt.

1/2 bit for drilling, Four 1/2" o.s. shoulder bronze bushings back to back, x 7/8" long. 8 flat washers, 2 ss bolts, 2 nyloc nuts, nuts up.

All from ACE Hardware. $14.00.  

skip.

What bolt size does that leave you with? Also, why nuts up? Wait a minute - I think I remember that thread - you like to keep an eye on the nuts, right?

[kickingbug1]

   A winter project for me as well.

[skip1930]

Yep. Nuts up to watch if the thread count decreases, indicating a loose nut...wait a minute...that remark resembles me!

I don't know what the bolt dia is...at the hardware you have the bushings in hand, so find a bolt to fit.
Calculate the length. Leave a little extra length for the wife and kids.

skip.

[Keith]

Wouldn't "nuts down" make more sense?  If one forgets to inspect and a nut backs off with the bolt head down...bye bye bolt.   In "nuts down", even if you lose your nuts the bolts should stay in place.

Cheers,

Keith

[Salty19]

Keith--I agree with you...nuts down all the way. BTW I use double nuts, the bottom being a nylock nut which resist spinning.  It has yet to move on me.  Very secure and you can tension the upper nut for proper resistance without worrying about the lower nut moving. The lower nut is not tight against the upper but rather just kisses it to maintain the upper nuts position.  Otherwise it seems to loosen the nut, at least while testing in the driveway last year.   Disclaimer:  Only the mount/pintles are factory, everything else is IDA or from racebolts.com.

They are removed and regreased every year just like Bob's. Smooth as budda!!

[Billy]

Wouldn't "nuts down" make more sense?  If one forgets to inspect and a nut backs off with the bolt head down...bye bye bolt.   In "nuts down", even if you lose your nuts the bolts should stay in place.

Cheers,

Keith

not only bye bye bolt, bye bye rudder!!! and tiller.

[Bob23]

   I'm gonna have to agree with nuts down. It's just basic common sense (please don't take that personally, skipper). I never look down to see if my nuts are there...one just knows.
   I also double nut both bolts and they've never come loose. I have more problems with corrosion than loose nuts. And the same for the boat.
bob23

[crazycarl]

    I never look down to see if my nuts are there...one just knows.
  bob23

Well...after 33 1/2 years of marriage, mine have been taken away from me a l o n g time ago!

                                                                                carl

[skip1930]

That's why were all different. Nuts up for me, since I'm not able to look~see over the transom and see the nuts if they are down.

Those nuts shown in the pictures are loc-nuts having a detent hammered into them from the factory. They screw on hard and stay put.

Now what I do is to tighten the nuts up tight enough to create drag on the tiller so the tiller stays put when I turn her into the wind for the sail raising part of the adventure. Since I can't reach the tiller AND pull the halyard at the same time. It might be a bit stressful on the aluminum casting, since castings don't bend or flex, but so far nothing snapped. Those flat washer bare the load.

No one said anything but the 7/8" bushings won't fill the entire length of the drilled 1/2" holes...so? The holes in the castings don't ware, just the bronze bushings. And they are replaceable. Bolts don't ware as they are harder then the bushings.

I think this set-up is better then the plastic inserts the factory uses.

skip.

[Bob23]

Skip:
   As an aside, I used your method for the outriggers of my Oarmaster 1 sliding seat rig. Originally, it had nylon bushings but no one makes these for the old Oarmasters. The old OD of the aluminum castings were a tad less than 3/4". I found bronze bushings at Lowes, drilled out the holes to 3/4", inserted the bronze bushings using Never-seez and all is well. Everything gets greased and I used stainless pins and fender washers under to limit vertical movement of the oarlock. The original bronze oarlocks are a bit sloppy in the bushings because they have worn a bit over time, but overall, the modification is great.
   The fit was a bit tight, but heating the aluminum casting with the heat gun helped a little and the Never-seez insures that I'll be able to replace the bushings when they wear.
Bob23