Lateen Sail

[nhickman]

Just read an article about Larry Brown's experiments with a lateen sail on a potter 15. Better pointing into the wind and ease of rigging. Has anyone looked at doing this on a Compac 16? Don't like the idea of cutting a hole in the deck to rig a mast sleeve but maybe if a shorter mast could use existing hardware. I think that a sunfish rig is 85 sqft of sail. probably poor light air performance. Just curious if any one had look at this.

[Gil Weiss]

IMHO the CP16 is a great looking boat rigged as a sloop. A lateen sail would dramatically alter the aesthetic. Besides, overall it sails pretty good as designed. Evrything is a comprimise and overall the CP16 is an EXCELLENT handling little craft with a salty sailboat look.

I have improved and resolved the pointing, weather helm issue with the foiled rudder and some forward rake to the mast.

My 2 cents . . .

[Craig]

I think you would create more problems than you would solve with a lanteen rig. Remember the WWP 15 only displaces 450 lbs, as opposed to the 1,100 the CP 16 displaces. The WWP 15 has a centerboard and no other fixed keel - a much different configuration.

First, you lose the draft of the jib which makes the main more effective, and probably exacerbate weather helm by moving the CE even further aft and probably hurt windward performance.

Second, By losing the ability to change headsails or roller furl a headsail you severely limit your options for balancing the rig in different weather conditions.

Third, reefing becomes difficult. Where do you put the topping lift?

Early reviews of the CP 16 suggested a larger headsail helped considerably with pointing. Much easier solution than changing the whole rigging.

If you're after ease of rigging and having only one sail for the 16, the Sailboat Company has installed a SunCat rig on a 16.
http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/
Click on "Com-Pac Conversions"

Craig

[nhickman]

Had not thought about it moving the CE but you are right, turns out that on the potter they moved the mast forward almost a foot to get the CE right. interesting catboat rig. not sure I want to spend that kind of money. Just looking for short cuts because I will be singlehanding most of the time.

[Craig]

I understand the short cuts. I dry sail all the time, so I know you will develop little tricks and short cuts to rigging and stowing. Plus, the 16 is real easy to single hand.  In fact, if not for the good company I enjoy with others I would claim I like to single hand better.  

Craig

[dgholmes]

nhickman,
I personally love the look of a sloop.  I think putting a lateen sail on the CP16 would really ruin her beautiful looks.  I don't think you could make the Potters any uglier, so no big deal there.  lol   Just kidding.

I am new to the CP16, but not to trailering or single handing sailboats.  I have always trailer sailed and have single handed the CP16 twice in the last two weeks.  

The CP16 is as easy to setup and take down as any daysailer I have owned thanks to the lightweight mast.  It is so easy, that I like to even go after work for a short sail.  I get off work at 4 pm and drive 40 minutes home.  Hook up the boat, change and gets snacks and stuff.  Drive 25 minutes to the lake and am on the water sailing by 5:30 pm.  I sail a couple of hours and home before 8:30 pm.  I would have never considered this with my Vagabond 17 because it took too much time, was too much trouble and the mast was heavy.

Last week after I was sailing, something happened that really made me fall in love with the CP16.  The boat was on the trailer and I was in the process of lowering the mast.  I went forward and released the forestay.  I was standing there on the foredeck holding the mast and thinking how I was going to get to the cockpit to lower the mast.  My shoes were wet and I was concerned about slipping and dropping the mast.  I squatted down and was going to try to ooch (probably not a word) my way to the cockpit while holding the mast erect.  Then I would lower it like I had always done.  

When I squatted, my knee locked up and I quickly straightened it to relieve the pain.  In the process, I slipped down and ended up sitting on top of the cabin next to the mast, but still holding it upright.  What a relief!  

But now what do I do, I was thinking.  The way I had fell, I could not get to the cockpit or at least I could not figure it out at the time.  I thought to myself that the mast was light, and I could probably lower it to the mast crutch while sitting there.  Guess what, I did.  That was a first for me and could never have been done with any other ballasted cabin boat that I have owned.  I would have lost the mast and damaged the boat in the process.  But not with the CP16.

I have owned two ballasted cabin boats and a bunch of daysailers.  I like the stability of the cabin boats because my family is not as afraid in them.  I also love daysailers for the speed, easily single handed and ease of setup, especially the ease of setup.  Before I purchased the CP16, I had decided I wanted a stable ballasted boat with the ease of setup of a daysailer if possible.  

I bought the CP16 without ever sailing one or knowing anyone that had.  It had beautiful lines for one, but it looked like it would be very easy to setup based on the mast length and diameter.  I was right.  I can setup in about 10 minutes and takedown in about 15.  The CP16 sets up as easy as any of the small daysailer I have owned including a super sunfish.  

I personally, I wouldn't worry about converting the CP16 to something else.  She is perfect just the way she is.

[mhallas]

i think the benefit of the lateen is it is real easy to take up and down, i think historically they have been unstayed masts.  the up/down benefits goiing under bridges, etc.

matt hallas

[nhickman]

I agree about the looks of the CP16. That was one of the biggest factors in my decision to buy one. I have had mine little over a month now. It sails better than any boat I have sailed. After not sailing for 15 years I am really enjoying getting back at it. I can rig the boat in about 20 minutes and unrig in about 45 by myself. I was just looking for ways to simplify the setup and take down. The local ramps I can use require me to be in the way of the power boaters when rigging and unrigging. (overhead obstructions). They are not the friendliest people when you hold up their fishing. LOL. With time they will learn to wait and I will get quicker. The lateen was just a thought, but seems it will require some design changes that I am not up for. The more I sail my CP16 the more little tricks I will develop. I was just curious if anyone had tried this one or had some better ideas. Thanks for the input.

[Craig]

Which version of the 16 do you have? 16/1,2,3 or CB? Depending on which version you have there are several mast crutch systems that have been designed and will allow you to lower the mast, rest it on the crutch and drive to the parking lot to finsh stowing the mast for transport.  That would take about 5 minutes and lower the blood pressure of the power boaters waiting to launch.

Craig

[nhickman]

I have a CP16/1 #2054. I have a homebuilt mast crutch that works great for travel but is not high enough or secure enough to hold mast while I bolt it in. I think you are right a different mast crutch would let me lower the mast and then get out of the way. good idea.

[Craig]

The PO of my 16/1 made a simple wooden scissors that sits in the aft water channel of the lazarette. With something like that you could leave the mast bolted to the tabernacle, bungie the mast down by the aft cleats and move to the parking lot.  There you could take off the bungie, unbolt the mast and stow for over the road.  I use the siscors for over the road. I can take some pictures of my set up if you want.

Craig

[nhickman]

I would like to see what you have. My current mast crutch is fine for travel with the mast bungied to the crutch and bow pulpit. but when the mast is bolted in or when I am trying to bolt it in the crutch is too low. the mast hits the companionway hatch. So I can't lay it down to slide it into place. Good thing the mast is so lite that I can carry it. Just kind of akward dong it that way. Thanks.

[PaulE]

How about a cheaper alternative to re-rigging the boat.
Have some sails made with a lot more roach and full battens.
This shouldn't cause a significant increase in weight up top, and will increase the amount of sail surface area.
Keep the old main for heavy winds.

just my $0.02