Play in Rudder at wheel

[Tom V]

Does anyone know of a solution to the above. The play is more noticeable when motoring. Is there a sleeve available to put between the mounts on the stern and the rudder. Replaced bolts due to corrosion and fit does not seem the same as before. The boat is a horizon cat.

[skip1930]

Nope. No idea.
It's cable pulled and/or pushed right?
Verses a rack and pinion drive, driven by a worm gear on the end of a flexible cable?
So slack cables. What tightens up a slack cable?
Is the jacket that the cable rides in no longer solidly attached to something?
Go take a look~see while the mate turns the wheel. [This is why I don't care for wheels, I like tillers, I can see whats going on].
Whats moving? Whats not moving? And whats not suppose to move?
Thats just the cable.
Now the rudder.
If its typical Com-Pac castings, then drill out the casting [1/2"] to accept shoulder bronze or brass [oil-lite] bushings. All from Ace Hardware. 4 for $15.00 or so.
I think the bushings are 1/2" od x 3/4" long includes shoulder and 5/16 bolt [pin]? I think the shoulder is about 3/4" dia.
Four shoulder bushings, shoulder to shoulder in the upper casting, and two S to S in the lower casting. And pin them with a ss bolt and washers.
You should end up with zero slop at the casting. Can't say about the wheel/drive/cable.

Note the Snow Blower sheer pin through the rudder casting, and rudder blade, holding the rudder down.

Nuts-up, so I can see if they loosen up. I should see the same amount of threads every time I look~see.

Two shoulder bushings, shoulder to shoulder, back to back, they lubricate each other since they are oil-lite, oil impregnated.


There Is ZERO Slop In This Rudder Hanging On Comfort & Joy, My CP-19.
And note that the rudder sits atop the casting. It could go the other way but then the rudder would draw more water, more drag.
I like the tiller a little higher up. I have a screw under the tiller in the wood where it slams down on the rudder casting to adjust the angle of the dangle [is equal to the mass of the ass].
skip.

[Billy]

Skip,
I must respectfully disagree with having the nuts up on the pintels (or are they gudgeons?). How often do you lean over the stern and tuck your head under the rail & check? Especially while under way

I check before every launch, however, sometimes it can get pretty spicy out in the gulf and I'm sure my nuts could come loose in a matter of minutes (especially while on the hook and the tiller isn't secured).

Having the bolts on the top might (and that is a big hopeful might) keep the rudder & tiller in place should the nuts come off.

just my 2 cents.

[Tom V]

Thanks for the reply and pictures I think I see the problem.

[skip1930]

Billy, ever time the boat is untied I look over the side for seaweed and to put the eye ball on my nuts.
They're still there. Actually I have the bolts and nuts tight enough to apply a pre-load on to the tiller.
It takes a bit to push or pull the tiller as these four shoulder bushing are compressed in contact.
Flat ss washers under the bolts heads and nuts, and lots of Neverseize.
Additionally these are loc-nuts that were 'out-of-round' when they are screwed onto the bolts.
And last I center punched the threads of the bolts to mong these up.
Ain't nothing coming apart with out the effort of two good wrenches and a little grunting.
Of course I'm in fresh water. No corrosion, not as bad as salt. But I did use noble metals.

Tom V : Are these cables or worms slopping about? I'LL BET IT'S AN UNSECURED CABLE JACKET.

skip.

[Tim Gardner]

 Skip said "ever time the boat is untied I look over the side for seaweed and to put the eye ball on my nuts.
They're still there."

Glad of that! Hate to go through life without tiller nuts.

TG

[wes]

Skip - nice high res photos of your rudder! I was interested to see that the powder coating on your rudder casting shows the same pitting that I've been wrestling with. My local powder coat company have sprayed mine twice and the pits appear every time during the baking/curing process. They say this is not uncommon with cast aluminum - apparently it outgasses when heated and causes the paint to bubble. In a way I'm glad to see that others have had this problem - I was beginning to think my powder coat guys were incompetent.

- Wes

[skip1930]

I worked at a place that ran a five stage power spray washer, dry-off oven, powder booth, cure oven, conveyorized paint line.
In fact I use to design and build and install, and fire-up my own lines and sell them.
About 1/2 the work was aluminum and 1/2 steel. About 4,000 lb an hour at 15 fpm.
I sprayed my own rudder casting after work.
Time in the dry-off oven is 6 minutes. Time in the cure oven is 18 minutes.
Cool time 'tween ovens is forced air for 15 minutes. So work enters P-Booth at ambient Deg F.

For my job;

The first time through the cure oven was run up to 575 deg F. to de~gas the casting.
The second time through was our normal 305 deg F. cured powder temp.
The casting when I de-painted it by glass bead abrasion shows all these pits that you see. Pits are in the substrate. Not the paint.
That was THE reason the casting was powder coated with an epoxy-polyester hammer-tone gray finish.
The idea was to hide the normal pitting in a cheap and dirty casting.
The cured powder coated surface is not broke from out gassing, and in fact p-coating with gloss may have accentuated the pits.
Certainly the wax I used and never rubbed out of the pits shows off my pits quit nicely.
I like the paint job. Better than flat liquid black alkali-enamel paint that fades from day one from the factory.
The p-coat is fully cured and can endure 100 double strokes of MEK and bou-cue hours of salt spray.

"THE PAINT JOB IS NO BETTER THAN WHAT'S UNDER IT" or as we say, "You can't see it from Brussels."
You want to get rid of the pits? Spray the rudder casting warm to the touch,
build up the powder coating, but then you'll have other problems and you don't want that.
I'm around 6 mils thickness. Sprayed at ambient.

Most of the under carriage on my 1930 Ford Model 'A' is p-coated #50 gloss black. skip.

[wes]

Skip - just to make sure I understand, are you saying that the outgassing of cast aluminum is normal, and that you first ran the cast parts through the oven at 575 F. bare (no powder) to eliminate the gas, then you cooled it, applied powder, and baked at 305 F. to cure?