CP-27 - Offshore?

[rudy]

Hi there CP-27 Sailors,

i've been looking at and researching smaller(up to 27-28 feet) offshore capable and by that i mean serious long distance
cruising with passages up to several days//week offshore...
i came across(except the usual suspects: frances, shanon, dana, orion...$$) quite a few boats during my search, scanning lots of sites over the past 2 years, although the CP-27 was never mentioned anywhere.

i could not even find substantial records on any sort of voyages made in a CP-27!
i hope not to offend anyone, my sole purpose is to find out what she's capable of. perhaps one of you have made serious offshore
voyages, long distances cruises and have something to say, report about it.

i own a CP-23 and have to say that she's a definite, no, for serious ocean-going...she looks great, is a good boat, but no bluewater-breed!

any experiences, opinions are very much appreciated.

rudy

[MomentSurf]

I'm no help in answering your question...but what, in your opinion, makes a boat bluewater capable?

[Bob23]

Rudy:
   I believe the 27's (and 23's) were designed as coastal cruisers. Both with shoal draft keels. Could you make it? Maybe. Would I try? No way. I have too much respect for the sea. I'd want a full keel under me, a tiny cockpit and a nearly watertight door going down to the cabiin. And a tiller.
Bob23

[bmiller]

Serious week long offshore passage, nope. Bahamas, keys, crossing the Sea of Cortez, (been there done that) absolutely.

[HenryC]

I agree with the others,, the 27 is a good boat, perfect for what she's designed for, shoal-draft coastal cruising; but she is at best marginal for serious offshore work.  She could probably cross an ocean or handle an extended coastal passage with a little luck and a good skipper, but sooner or later her luck would run out. I once asked the C27's designer, Robert K Johnson, NA,  (CEO of Island Packet Yachts), if the Compac 35 (which he also designed) could make it across an ocean.  His reply was "probably, but I suspect she would do better than her crew. Questions of seaworthiness aside, she simply doesn't have the stowage space for blue water cruising." I suspect those comments would apply to the 27 as well, only more so.

Having said that, a lack of blue-water capability or combat-tested construction does not necessarily imply a bad boat.  All boats are compromises, and the ability to move easily in light air and shallow waters and provide comfort at anchor in tropical conditions is a true strong point for any craft.  A steel hulled arctic cruiser capable of rounding the Horn or weathering a hurricane would be an awful choice for a Florida boat.

[bmiller]

Regarding storage,  The ComPac 27 has more storage than any other boat her size, more than some boats much larger. The Islander Freeport 38 we are looking at has decent inside storage but very limited lazarette storage. I can barely get in one half of it. But in the 27 I can get all the way inside and around. The engine access is excellent also.

[Bob23]

Henry:
   I thought Charley Morgan designed the 35, no?
Bob23

[HenryC]

"Bob Johnson of Island Packet and Charley Morgan were employed as designers of three cruisers, the Com-Pac 25, 27, and 35 footers."

http://www.tays.com/compac/reviews/review35.html

I distinctly remember Mr Johnson making that comment, although I couldn't find it in my notes of the interview, or the published text.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/more_online/robert_johnson.php

Incidentally, in that interview, Bob Johnson talks at length about offshore safety standards, particularly quantifiable published industry standards. 

[Bob23]

Henry:
   Being sort of on the inside, is the CP 25 considered the design that they'd like to forget? I've never sailed on one, but it truly is not the prettiest Compac and I understand they don't sail well. Seemed like too much was being crammed into too small a package. Trailerability, standing headroom, shoal draft...it all added up to a really high freeboard and kind of unsightly, in my humble opinion. Being a 23 owner, I may be spoiled with a very pretty design.
   Thanks for all you write here at the site...most enlightening!
Bob23

[HenryC]

I'm not personally familiar with any of the larger Com-Pacs, although I did review the 19 and a had good friend who owned a 16.  I did look up the 25 on the net and I do concur with you about its appearance.  It's an awkward looking boat, and I can say nothing about its sailing qualities.

Thanks for your kind comments about my writing.  I'm learning a lot by reading you guys, and I hope I can return the favor in my areas of expertise.

[Nicolina]

The CP-27 is definitely not a blue water boat. tankage is generous for a coastal cruiser but not enough for crossing oceans. Storage is OK and perhaps comparable to small off-shore boats, but nonetheless limited for an ocean crossing. Most importantly, the boat is quite light in displacement (D/L) and not very high up in the comfort ratio. Combined with a rather flat bottom, the boat tends to pound in stronger waves rather more than heavier displacement boats with more traditional hull shapes. Pounding kills speed and fun at the same time.

Could it survive an ocean crossing? Yes, why not, but it nonetheless strikes me as a bad choice for that purpose. The strengths of the 27 are in coastal sailing, especially where shoal draft is required. I love the boat for the Chesapeake.

[tkeheley]

I read that most people buy a boat first then decide to take it offshore.  I recommend that you look at the bookThe Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat by John Vigor.  He goes through what makes a boat seaworthy.  Then goes one step furtherand in  an Appendix tells how to make a Catalina 27 beefed up enough that it was taken offshore.

That being said, when I think of offshore sailing I remember October 1968.  I was on an LPH (helicopter carrier the size of a WWII aircraft carrier) in the South China Sea and watched waves break over the flight deck, 65 feet above waterline.

[Koinonia]

This July my wife and I are taking our C27 to punta gorda and launching, then sailing to the dry tortugas, key west, back to cruise punta gorda last and them come home.  Its almost a 3 week vacation.  Since the water tank is big but still a single Im taking two jerry jugs for safety.  Wal mart sells a light blue one and two of them can fit behind the backrest of the settee areas, water will be on the starboard side.  Im using two of the jugs clearly marked diesel and storing them on the port side of the boat behind the settee back rest.  The water will supply us for over 10 days at 3 gallons a day per person, and the amount of diesel will be enough for over 60 hours of motoring.   I do plan on stopping in key west for water and some fuel as well.
    On another note Im hoping to be able to take 5 weeks off work in a couple years and spend some time in the bahamahs.  With that though I would be replacing the diesel tank with a larger one at least doubling the size since thats the boats weak point for storage.  The other addition would be a 1.4gph water maker on board since we have ample solar power I could run it for 8 to 10 hours a day with the excess power from my panel during peak time which would provide more than enough water for two people.

   About my solar panel, its mounted on the back of the bimini to minimize shadowing since thats a major downfall to solar production.  Its a kyocera 135 watt and has a 140watt MPPT controller which is 20 to 30 percent more efficient than anything out there.
To monitor whats going on with power I built a new breaker panel since my boat is hull #4 and just had fuses.  In the panel is a Victron energy battery monitor which monitors amps going in or going out of the bank, consumed energy, battery percentage left and time to use at the current use.  I highly recommend this setup as you can really see where your power is going.  Where I keep my boat we dont have power on the docks but even on cloudy days I have ample power to supply re fridgeration, fans, lights, stereo, ect.

Other equipment is an 8ft inflateable dingy with 3.5hp outboard that stores ont the stern rail. Autopilot, fixed mount and handheld vhf, binical gps as well as a handheld, second handheld gps in the ditch bag for a total of 3.  Large asymetrical spinnaker, two anchor lines int he bow, next year I will build another roller on the side of the pulpit like the island packet 26 has. 

[Bob23]

Respectively, from one Koinonia to another, you're making me very jealous! Best to you on your trip. Will you be able to update here at the site periodically or will you be too busy having fun?
It sounds like you have the trip very well thought out and are quite prepared. Need a deck swabber? I work cheap but eat quite a bit!
Bob23 and 1985 23/2 "Koinonia"

[Koinonia]

I may be able to post something once we get to key west but with the time spend in the tortugas that may take over a week.  I still have yet to get into posting pics as well.  Well see if sloppy joes has wireless!   I would most likely post updated under my other thread seeing if any other Compac owners were interested in sailing over.  Nice part of the smaller boats is you can trailer directly to key west which I cant do with the keys bridges and my wide load permit.  This is my reason for the punta gorda launch but that area has some great cruising which I plan on spending the last few days of my trip there, that way if there is bad weather in the gulf I can hang out in key west a few days longer.
  Somebody on here mentioned the C27s storage and they are correct.  i have enough food, fuel, water, booze, beer, ect for two on the boat and still have alot of storage left.  There is also a post on our site of a C27 going from Charleston SC to the Bahamahs.