compac 16 capsize?

[mattt6511]

Hello again i have a quick question my gf is pretty scared to even set foot on this boat due to the fact that shes a 16 foot shes afriad its going to capsize very easly, is this a hard boat to capsize or any advice on the topic? If it does capsize it looks very hard to upright since it has such a short keel you dont have alot of leverage to push down on

[ssullivan]

i ve had over 450lbs on the gunwale (me and my buddy) and the rub rail barely got wet. they have a lot of ballast, i think they are self righting

[Pacman]

The 16 would be very difficult to capsize. 

Its hull shape and weight distribution is a lot like a lifeboat design and in my opinion, it is one of the safest small boats anywhere

In heavy wind it will heel, but when that happens, the sail spills its air and the boat won't go over any farther.

As ssullivan said, the 16 is ballasted and very stable.

About the only way I can think of to turn her over in the water would be to get hit with a very large wave on the beam.

The only thing I have been concerned about is that a wake from a cruise ship or other large vessel passing too closely could break on deck and fill the cockpit with water. 

If the companionway was open when that happened the boat could fill with water and sink, or depending on the amount of floatation, cause it to float very low in the water. 

My advice:  Stay away from larger vessels and, when in doubt, close the companionway and secure the hatch.

Other than that, just enjoy.

[mattt6511]

awsome alright ill let her know we may be going on it later today its going to be in the upper 70's with about 10-12kts of wind so a pretty calm nice sailing day!! Shes just used to watching videos of 14' dingys with a small centerboard flipping right over like its nothing!

[Salty19]

Matt,

Tell her to grow a pair   Seriously, it would take an act of god, or a really big wave (storm like situation)  to knock these boats over. 

It may feel a little tippy, but it will only go so far before stabilizing.  After a sail or two your GF will relax, I hope.
Because the CP16 is about as stable as any in that size and nothing in this size range is going to be any better. It's all about getting accustomed to it.

Also if your sails are worn out it will heel more while underway.  But it still is more stable than most if not all boats this size.

I have sailed the 16 sitting to leeward (I'm about 200lbs) in 15mph winds with full sails and genoa.  A few times I got some water over the coaming (fun!) but it drains out quickly.
Never did I fear of it flipping over.  My brother bought this boat, was a complete novice and was a little skeered the first time out.  Once he got 30 minutes of time in, he realized it was very safe and forgiving.

Maybe a little liquid encouragement for her is in order (kidding, keep the booze at home).

[rsahlender]

Also if your sails are worn out it will heel more while underway.

Curious. If old worn sails cannot hold the wind as well I would expect just the opposite. Can you explain?

[Caboose]

Ok, here it goes. Please folks, don't make too much fun of this reply.
Think of your main and headsail as a bra. But using the control lines (halyard, outhaul, Cunningham, etc), you can shape your sails. Depending on wind speed and/or direction, you need to alter the shape of the sail. Downwind/reach - your sails need to be like a "C" cup. As you get closer to a close haul, you go from a "B" to an "A". Old worn out sails just can't be put in a proper "A" cup anymore. I hope this helps. 

[Bob23]

Oh, yeah! That helps alot! Now we all have a visual image in our heads...best way to learn. I'll never look at my sails the same way! What's next: Sails by Victorias Secrets? And what about reefing. If you reef too early, do they, ah, pop out? And what about spinnakers...is there a Dolly Parton Sail loft? Or Mae West? I'll stop now because I fear I could go on and on...
Bob23
( Actually, Caboose, that really does help alot! Thanks! If you've read any of my earlier posts, I've likened my CP 23 to Ingrid Bergman who is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful actresses ever. But now I have this picture of my mainsail drapped across her...it's not a bad picture at all!) I'm really gonna stop now.

[rsahlender]

Hah! Funny stuff Bob...

Old worn out sails just can't be put in a proper "A" cup anymore.  

I know my newbie is showing but this still does not quite make sense to me, unless...

Do you mean that since a worn out sail can no longer hold the "A" shape it will no longer work as close to the wind as it should thereby forcing a point of sail more like a reach which I am guessing will heel more easily than close hauled?

[rdcvsmith]

....could we have some pictures for this "A", "B" "C" concept .... maybe a hands on workshop ? ....we do not want a sailing wardrobe mishap!

[Bob23]

Well, Rich:
   Think of it this way: If one has an "A" size thing but only has a "C" size bra, things tend to get a bit sloppy, ya know. the bra, or sail doesn't have anything to hold it's shape.
   Or course, there are more technical, albeit less entertainingly graphic explanations available. Try to visulalize your sail looking staight down as if from a plane. A proper sail in good condition will have the shape, more of less, of an airplane wing. The foil shape of the wing is what gives it lift and ultimately, what keeps it up in the air. The sail shape does the same thing although the "lift" is forward. I'm speaking of this in terms of going to windward. This is where the "A" size comes in.
    When the wind is from the stern, we are trying to fill the sails with the "C" size wind and want a fuller sail as in a spinakker.
   I'm sure there are those here who can add to this in a clearer way than I can.
   All these years, I knew those sails reminded me of something! Taking Caboose's expanation to the next level gives me ideas for sail graphics!
Bob23

[NateD]

I'm going to stay out of the bra analogy, but I do have some advice on the heeling/capsize/girlfriend issue.

KEEP THE GIRLFRIEND HAPPY WHEN SAILING

This comes from experience. I love rough weather and took my 16 out in 20-30mph winds with gusts up to 34-35 a number of times. With a deep reef in my worn out main, a 110 jib (would have used smaller if I had smaller), and the hatch board in, I felt completely safe, although she would get blown on to her side a bit when the big gusts hit. Now, would my wife feel safe in that situation? No way, it would have freaked her out and she would have refused to step foot in the boat again. Even in lighter conditions, she didn't particularly like the heeling when we first started sailing, so I would reef early and chose points of sail that limited heel. You can show her all the calculations and specifications for the boat, you can show her message board postings, and she can know logically that it won't tip over, but when the gust hits and the boat heels, logic will stand no chance against raw animal fear. Plus, with the shoal keel, the CP16 sails upwind MUCH better if you keep the boat as upright as possible.

It has taken 2.5 years, but my wife now trusts the boat and even gets a rush sailing in the heavy weather.

[Salty19]

The foil descriptions are right.

As said, looking down from the sky on the sail, it should look like an airplane wing. Wings or foils would bow out quickly then taper back slowly.  The large diameter point of the sail should be forward of the center line.  That produces lift, and if the large point is forward, it will produce forward lift and move you ahead.  If the large diameter of the sail is, say,halfway back, that is not a foil shape but rather would look like a half moon so to speak.  That produces lift too, albeit not as efficient, but the direction of the lift moves from forward to sideways.   If the bow is halfway out, you may as well as a tarp from kmart powering your boat. 

Do a google search on foil shape efficiency for more information as I'm not 'susplaining it too well!

[Caboose]

I knew I would get blasted for my "bra" posting. So, let's try again.
Tires - Old or new, it's still rubber. But old tires don't do as good as new tires.
Sails get worn, stretched, worn, blown out, etc. Don't ask old sails to perform as new ones.
Going downwind - a bed-sheet will work. But don't ask it to close haul.   

[Bob23]

I like your first analogy better...easier to picture.
The first winter I owned my 23, I sent the sails to Sailcare for cleaning and reconditioning. Needless to say, they came back crispy and new looking. But, that only lasted for a few years and now they are back to thier old, kinda blown-out self. But for original sails (1985) they really are not too bad. I suppose this will be the year I treat "Koinonia" to some new sexy lingerie! I'm thinking something in red!!!
Bob23