Atlas Flushed

[HenryC]

   Sorry for the thread drift...

No need to apologize for the thread drifts, I have a soft spot in my heart for the old "bathtub" Porsches, from the classic age of sports cars.  I was motor sport enthusiast in those days, rallyes, autocrosses, gymkhanas; but my meager budget  forced me to compete in a Production Class  VW beetle (stock engine, highly modified suspension). The Porsche roadsters were my idea of the perfect machine, machines that were partners with humans, not substitutes for them...kind of like sailboats...

[Tim Gardner]

Me too, Henry,

I used to race a "Poor Man's Porsche" 140hp Corsa built in 1965 .  Never lusted for the money cars.  I still own a 67 AH Sprite Mk IV I bought in 1973 for $600.00. 

I don't race any more although the Sprite, like my 19 still "goes fast slowly".

TG

[Salty19]

If you're looking for something modern that embodies the old roadster spirit, the Miata's are nice.  The philosphy used in the original design and carried over even today is "rider and horse as one".  From first hand experience that is quite true-you are keenly in touch with the car, the road, the wind and the engine.  Love my new Miata.

AND..you won't have to mess around with them much to keep 'em going.  To me, that is worth it's weight in gold to actually "use it" and not worry about breaking it, finding parts, etc.   They are also extremely cheap to insure.  

yea, I know it's not the quite the same thing as an old Porsche, never have and never will be.

And they look pretty good IMO...

[HenryC]

For 40 years American sports car buffs have been desperate for something that would bring back the old European roadster.  The Europeans couldn't pull it off any more, and our own automakers could only come up with lame excuses like the Corvette and the Thunderbird (whatever their virtues, they are muscle cars, not sports cars).  Why did it take the Japanese to give us the Miata?

It's not just the mechanical and design concept I'm talking about, it's the ability to judge the market and give it what it wants in a quality package at a reasonable price. That requires more than just the engineering idea behind the roadster, that has existed for half a century. It requires innovation and courage, real entrepreneurial spirit, the willingness to take a chance, not just depend on the marketing weenies and the bean counters to tell you how to run your business. 

When I first saw Miatas on the street, and the word got out that they were as dependable and reliable as Toyotas, I realized the American automobile industry was not only finished, it deserved to be.

But apparently, we can still make microprocessor-controlled bidets.

[kickingbug1]

   lets see me 6'5" in a miata. drove one once fit like a glove an "oJ" glove. think ill stick with old trucks. and if i want to go fast ill street rod it. think of it a 429 cobra in that old 52. gives me goose bumps.

[Bob23]

   I've always liked the Miatas although never drove one. Some folks think they're girlie cars but they have a great track record of dependability.
   My brother in law has a 2001 Honda S-2000 and THAT IS ONE FAST CAR! 9000 rpm readline, real stiff ride, tight suspension and steering, 6 speed trans. It's rawness reminded me of the old British cars- TR-6 and the like except the S was running and not leaking something. Too bad that Honda stopped importing them. I think the replacement is just another boring front wheel drive car.
   But the Porsche, ah, that sound of air-cooled ponies behind you. What can replace that? That, my friends, is music.
Bob23
   

[newt]

Sorry I haven't caught up on this thread for a while. Did anyone mention that Porsche did make a 912 in 66, but it had a different engine in it- I think it was the pancake 914.  Thank you for the reviews of the Miata, my wife has a Mini-S with a supercharger and inter cooler in it- I was driving it the other day and it reminded me of the old 911's. I am sure it won't be as reliable. Every once in a while I see a 914-6, that is my idea of a fine car....

[rsahlender]

The Europeans couldn't pull it off any more, and our own automakers could only come up with lame excuses like the Corvette and the Thunderbird (whatever their virtues, they are muscle cars, not sports cars).

Hahahaha... sorry but I can't bring myself to think of my 69 Z28 as a lame excuse for anything! This pic was taken in the spring. The only change since then is I pulled the Rally Wheels and replaced them with what was every guys dream wheels when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's... Cragar SS Mags!

[HenryC]

That is no doubt a righteous ride, my friend, but to the true purist, a sportscar is not just fast in a straight line, it is also at home on a road course, negotiating increasing and decreasing radius, un- and reverse-banked turns, hairpins, chicanes, s-turns, pavement changes, and other problems requiring the need for numerous downshift, braking and acceleration maneuvers. Real race cars are expected to make right as well as left hand turns, and a real road race is never canceled on account of rain, (or even snow, for that matter).

[Salty19]

Nice car, Rich!   A buddy is restoring a green '69 SS as we speak. I think it has a 427 4-speed in it (going from faded memory, could be wrong). The last two he did, a '66 goat and 71 El Camino came out beautifully.  He flipped those two but is keeping the SS.

I love most if not all "classic" and "sports" car for what they are. That goes for any country of origin and and marque, but admittedly I'm not real crazy about old Dodges.  Old Camaro's and muscle cars are great for laying rubber, shooting out of the hole and just plain cruisin' and drooling over.  The stock Miata will never beat one in a straightline, but in the curves or on a track, goodbye muscle car.

Speaking of which, I really need to get off my butt and sell the old car before I change my mind about it and have to face the wrath of the admiral.  Hate to see it go, a 1991 Toyota MR2 turbo (mid-engined and modified!).  I will miss spanking the kids and their V8 muscle cars as it does quite easily.  Off the line for the first 100 feet perhaps not, but thereafter...WHOOSHH!!!!


When I retire, and that won't be for a long time,  a dream is to build a kit Cobra.    Don't care that's it's a fake, almost all of them out there are anymore.  

[Bob23]

Rich:
   Beautiful Camaro and, coming from a foreign car guy, that's saying something. Cragar SS mags; now there's a term you don't hear much anymore. They indeed were THE whell to have. Thanks for the memories.
Newt:
   Yes, I am old enough to remember the 914's new. Back then they took alot of flack- Sort of a VW trying to be a Porsche. Now they bring big bucks but then again so do VW bugs.
Mike:
   A good friend (and Ford freak) built a kit Cobra. He couldn't spring for the 427 (for which I have since forgiven him) went with a 350 instead. Kit or not, the sex appeal is still there. And way cheaper at the body shop.
  And speaking of cars,  I noticed that the Motor Trend car of the year is the Chevy Volt. Please, child, tell me this is not a joke. I guess we know who owns MT.
Bob23
   

[kickingbug1]

  amen rich--buy american

[rsahlender]

Aha! In a factory stock configuration I would agree that most (not all) muscle cars were not known for their "cornering" ability. The smaller models like the 1st generation Camaro and Mustang weren't nearly as rough cornering as were the larger Chevelle's and Roadrunners etc... but don't assume that every 60's muscle car you see on the road is stock. Many have been rebuilt with much better suspension and will surprise you if you underestimate them. As an example take a look at this video of a 69 Z28 chasing a 72 Porsche RSR at one of those tracks in California that are open to the public daily. While the Z28 is never actually able to pass the RSR it does keep up and passes everything the RSR does until the last minute or so of the video when a newer Porsche ends up between them... and this is hardly a drag strip straightaway. There are lots of turns in both directions to negotiate and the Z28 only spun slightly on one of them near the end of the video. Pretty impressive for an old muscle car if you ask me. It is 9 minutes long and with occasional "language" that might not be good for the little ones to hear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_D6HG8BuZk

[HenryC]

Your point is well taken, Rich, but I could probably find you some examples of souped-up Ferrari's and Porsche's tearing up the quarter-mile, too. Especially if they're fairly handicapped by engine displacement, the sports cars can be quite impressive in the 0-60 department. (Don't get me wrong, I'm from Don Garlits country, I'm a big rail car fan and I have haunted a few dragstrips in my time!).

The point I'm trying to make is the difference of philosophy between the two types of driving, and drivers.  Its like the difference between a cigarette boat and Bristol Channel Cutter.

[rsahlender]

I get your point Henry. You remind me that one of my growing up buddies had a 60-something Triumph Spitfire. Sometimes we would cruise in my Camaro and other times in his Spitfire. And while the Spitfire did not have near the get up and go that the Camaro did it was still a fun car to drive. No less fun but definately a "different" ride than the Camaro.