Outboard for a CP-16?

[bungyjumper]

Hi all, I posted my introduction in the "CP Sailors Lounge" thread, but figured this forum will be my new home.

My wife and I recently purchased a 1983 CP-16, our first boat. We need to buy a new outboard, and because we live in coastal GA with some strong currents and tidal swings, I'm leaning towards a slightly more powerful motor, probably the 6HP Yamaha F6. I considered the 4HP but it's the same weight as the F6 and only about $200 less. Question: what's the most appropriate shaft length for the CP-16? The F6 comes in either 15" or 20".  I'm guessing it's the 15" but figured someone here would know for sure. Thanks in advance!

Edit: I just noticed there was another thread on this topic, but it didn't really have a clear answer.

[Caboose]

Get the 4HP - 20"
The cost should be a wash vs. the 6HP - 15".

You'll want the 20" in whatever you get.

[bungyjumper]

A follow-up question: Do all CP-16's have the telescoping/scissoring motor mount on the stern?

Mine does, so I probably should have made that clear as part of my original question.

[Caboose]

From what I understand, it was not a factory standard item. Might have been an option though. Some owners install a fixed mount (less $$) while others install a movable mount (more $$$).

Get the long shaft and remember, it's a sixteen foot boat. You're NOT pushing the weight of the Q. E. II. You will on the other hand need to put on and take off your outboard from time to time. I'd get the long shaft 4HP and be done with it. I crew on thirty foot boats in an area with strong tides (lower Chesepeake Bay) and a 4HP works for them.

[bungyjumper]

From what I understand, it was not a factory standard item. Might have been an option though. Some owners install a fixed mount (less $$) while others install a movable mount (more $$$).

Get the long shaft and remember, it's a sixteen foot boat. You're NOT pushing the weight of the Q. E. II. You will on the other hand need to put on and take off your outboard from time to time. I'd get the long shaft 4HP and be done with it. I crew on thirty foot boats in an area with strong tides (lower Chesepeake Bay) and a 4HP works for them.

Thanks Caboose. I plan to keep her in the water most of the year and don't expect to trailer to other locales. The weight of both the Yamaha 4HP and 6HP is the same. The only variables I see are fuel efficiency (maybe) and cost. I guess it comes down to whether I want to spring for the extra $200 for the more powerful motor.

Anyone have experience with either of those Yamaha outboards?

[GlennB724]

my 16 has an adjustable mount.  (replaced it 2 years ago as part of a total hull refit and refinishing, since the old one didn't work well and got stuck all the time).  With the adjustable, you only need the standard shaft, and then with the mount moved up, the bottom of the motor is clear of the water.  If you have a standard mount, I agree on the long shaft.  Of course you can always tip the motor up to clear the water when docked.

[bungyjumper]

my 16 has an adjustable mount.  (replaced it 2 years ago as part of a total hull refit and refinishing, since the old one didn't work well and got stuck all the time).  With the adjustable, you only need the standard shaft, and then with the mount moved up, the bottom of the motor is clear of the water.  If you have a standard mount, I agree on the long shaft.  Of course you can always tip the motor up to clear the water when docked.

Thanks Glenn, that's very helpful. I'm going to do my own measurements, but I appreciate all the quick feedback in this thread.

[lostsailor101]

Bungyjumper,

My boat came with the factory motor mount. It was made out of aluminum, and we sail in saltwater. When I purchased my 4 hp short shaft Suzuki,
I upgraded to a stainless steel spring loaded mount. While the factory mount worked, there was a lot of play (side to side movement) which I did not like.
Another contributing factor for the upgrade was the weight of the new motor. I could pull the motor up but it was not an easy thing to do, especially when
out on the water sailing, with the spring loaded mount (purchased from west marine) it now requires less effort to raise the motor, and it also eliminated the
excessive movement.  The motor sits on the new mount securely without any vibration. No new holes were drilled the two mounts bolt patterns matched perfectly
in fact I reused the bolts and nuts, I did add larger pan washers.

best regards

[bungyjumper]

Bungyjumper,

My boat came with the factory motor mount. It was made out of aluminum, and we sail in saltwater. When I purchased my 4 hp short shaft Suzuki,
I upgraded to a stainless steel spring loaded mount. While the factory mount worked, there was a lot of play (side to side movement) which I did not like.
Another contributing factor for the upgrade was the weight of the new motor. I could pull the motor up but it was not an easy thing to do, especially when
out on the water sailing, with the spring loaded mount (purchased from west marine) it now requires less effort to raise the motor, and it also eliminated the
excessive movement.  The motor sits on the new mount securely without any vibration. No new holes were drilled the two mounts bolt patterns matched perfectly
in fact I reused the bolts and nuts, I did add larger pan washers.

best regards

Thanks LostSailor, much appreciated.

[Vic S.]

Welcome to the site.

My wife and I purchased a 1984 CP16 this summer and only got it in the water mid August. I wanted the lightest motor with a reverse setting so I went with a Suzuki. I wanted the 4hp and went my local dealer here in Gloucester MA  who said he would have to order one and would call me back when he knew how long it would be to get one. While waiting for the call back I found a longshaft 6 hp ready to go in nearby Salem. After a week of waiting for the Gloucester dealer to get back to me I got the 6hp since it weighs the same as the 4 and the boat was ready for launch. I have a scissor mount as well and find that when I'm up front attaching the jib the prop can come out of the water when a boat wake hits, there's a lot of wake in Gloucester harbor with the commercial fishing and whale watch boats and that's with the mount in the lowered position. I wish the mount had a mid point setting or was mounted lower so I could leave it raised but it works. If someone makes a smaller motor with reverse I may consider downsizing in the future. We've only been out 5 times so far and the last 2 we didn't use the motor at all. However I know next year we will be sailing in the harbor and the Annisquam river which can have a pretty strong current depending on the tide. It's comforting to have that extra power on hand if needed.

Best regards and happy sailing

[bungyjumper]

Welcome to the site.

My wife and I purchased a 1984 CP16 this summer and only got it in the water mid August. I wanted the lightest motor with a reverse setting so I went with a Suzuki. I wanted the 4hp and went my local dealer here in Gloucester MA  who said he would have to order one and would call me back when he knew how long it would be to get one. While waiting for the call back I found a longshaft 6 hp ready to go in nearby Salem. After a week of waiting for the Gloucester dealer to get back to me I got the 6hp since it weighs the same as the 4 and the boat was ready for launch. I have a scissor mount as well and find that when I'm up front attaching the jib the prop can come out of the water when a boat wake hits, there's a lot of wake in Gloucester harbor with the commercial fishing and whale watch boats and that's with the mount in the lowered position. I wish the mount had a mid point setting or was mounted lower so I could leave it raised but it works. If someone makes a smaller motor with reverse I may consider downsizing in the future. We've only been out 5 times so far and the last 2 we didn't use the motor at all. However I know next year we will be sailing in the harbor and the Annisquam river which can have a pretty strong current depending on the tide. It's comforting to have that extra power on hand if needed.

Best regards and happy sailing

Thanks Vic. Just so I'm clear, you have a 6HP long-shaft on a scissor-mount and the prop comes out of the water when you're forward? Just out of curiosity, how heavy is your motor?

[Salty19]

6HP is way too heavy for a CP16, IMO.  These boats work well with 2-4hp motors weighing between 30-50lbs. 

Not much you do about the cavitation problem when moving forward except turn the motor off.  These are light boats that are heavily affected by change in ballast position.  A heavier motor will make the boat sail poorly due to trim problems so think twice about getting a big motor.

To put things in perspective, the 19's and 23's use 6hp motors.  The 19 weighs almost double the 16, the 23 about triple.

You want to stay under 50lbs, hopefully closer to 40 on the 16 for proper trim. Or you'll have to put offsetting weight up front to balance it out.

[bungyjumper]

6HP is way too heavy for a CP16, IMO.  These boats work well with 2-4hp motors weighing between 30-50lbs.  

Not much you do about the cavitation problem when moving forward except turn the motor off.  These are light boats that are heavily affected by change in ballast position.  A heavier motor will make the boat sail poorly due to trim problems so think twice about getting a big motor.

To put things in perspective, the 19's and 23's use 6hp motors.  The 19 weighs almost double the 16, the 23 about triple.

You want to stay under 50lbs, hopefully closer to 40 on the 16 for proper trim. Or you'll have to put offsetting weight up front to balance it out.

Very helpful Salty, thanks much. The Yamaha F4 and F6 weigh the same...60 pounds. So you're saying I should consider another model.

So, my next question for everyone is....what else should I look at? Anyone have a 4hp motor under 50lbs they just LOVE?

Or maybe I'll just add 20 pounds of chain up front. ;-)

[Salty19]

I had a 1998 Johnson 4hp 2 stroke 2-cylinder longshaft originally on my old 16.  It worked quite well until I decided to work on the lower end and damaged it...a friend was willing to buy it so I sold it and bought the 43lbs Tohatsu 3.5 4 stroke as the sailing season was drawing near and my patience to fix it wore thin.
 
The Johnson weighed 33lbs--ideal for the boat.  It was smooth, fairly quiet (not as quiet as others), ran well, etc.   Probably should have just fixed it and kept running it! Power was very good..better than the Tohatsu. 

I chose the Tohatsu as they are good outboards and the 3.5hp 4 stroke was the lowest weight (43 lbs) new outboard available.  It's still going strong (brother now sails the 16) w/o problems. 

I would suggest the Tohatsu 3.5hp as the heaviest 4 Stroke motor you want to put on the 16 and any 3-4hp 2 stroke will be near the limit of weight.

Unfortunately the newer 4 strokes are just plain heavier than their 2 stroke counterparts.  The 8hp Yamaha 2 stroke/2 cyl longshaft I'm using now on the 19 weighs 60lbs and it's about as heavy as I would want on the boat (same weight as the 6hp version) from the late 1990's. These are the same weight as the newer yamaha 4 stroke 4 hp models!!  That's significant!  The 16 is affected by this weight in terms of performance under sail so this is an important area to get right.

So yes, a 60lb motor on the 16 is kind of pushing it--but yes you could offset the weight with extra anchor chain or whatever up in the bow.  the next question becomes can your motor mount handle the weight?  Usually they can, yes.  However the 4 strokes do produce more torque at lower rpms and the marketplace makes 4 stroke specific mounts to handle that extra torque.  I can't tell if this is just marketing BS or if they are truly engineered differently.  But I can tell you to at least find out what your mount can handle before you go buy anything. 

[bungyjumper]

Thanks Salty, all excellent advice.