Forum rules change

[Bob23]

Cap't K and Newt:
   I will go with whatever you deem correct. In the past, I have participated in the Off Topic posts and I think a healthy exchange of conflicting ideas is ok, bit I'm just a guest here. I have seen things turn ugly and have also seen grown men humble themselves and apologize for thier careless words. 'Nuff said.
Newt:
  As a fellow 23er, I would ask you to stick around but whatever you choose, let it be known that I appreciate your work here. If you ever make it back east, you have a standing invitation to sail and, yes, even steer "Koinonia". No politics will be discussed and I'll bring along the beer. Now, that's something we can all agree on, eh?
Bob23

[bmiller]

Of all the forums I've participated in this has always been the most civil. It's like purring kittens compared to some.
Seems to me the issue wasn't the content rather the sensitive people who read it then complain to staff.
Oh well, it was fun for awhile.

[newt]

I am hoping this can still be an excellent forum to discuss sailing and Compacs in particular. I just don't think we can be everything to everyone. This is just a sleepy little harbor with a few neighbors...Perhaps we could all work together to keep the bay clean and the dock pristine...

[Caboose]

To whomever is in charge:
There is an "Off Topic" section, make another one called "Uncharted - Enter at own risk".

[brackish]

Of all the forums I've participated in this has always been the most civil. It's like purring kittens compared to some.
Seems to me the issue wasn't the content rather the sensitive people who read it then complain to staff.
Oh well, it was fun for awhile.

I agree.  Both the initial poll and the theme of this particular thread had the same result.  The majority of participants wished to allow civil off topic discussions of whatever, in a section that would clearly be labeled as off topic.  Seems like I've spent my whole life watching folks caving to and greasing the few squeaky wheels.  It worked again......

[CaptK]

I've "caved" to no one. *That* concept, my friend, is laughable - and if you knew me better you would certainly understand...

I have made instead a decision based on experiences and knowledge, mostly regarding the apparently different definitions of what exactly constitutes "civility", and how a small few here took excessive liberties with the freedom that had been granted them until now.

Specifically, griefing a VOLUNTEER forum moderator, vilifying them particularly and personally in a rude manner whether publicly OR 'privately' (yes, it was done, though y'all may not have had to be the brunt of it), does not meet MY definition of "civil" discourse and/or conduct.

Thus, an end to the thing which apparently made some think that that sort of behavior is OK...

It is not. I was raised by very 'old-school', 'conservative' parents. The way of personal conduct they taught me may well be near to being a lost concept for most of our society, but I still stand by it, even online. You could sum it up as "If you wouldn't say it in front of, to, or about your own Mother, then - don't.".

My mother, and probably as well, *your* mother, would be shocked and ashamed at how some few people conducted themselves out of the public eye with your VOLUNTEER moderator Newt.

If someone thinks that they can do that and there will be no consequences, then that someone has been proven wrong. And if/when you feel tempted to pine for the 'good ol' days', understand that it is for that type of BS which you can blame those few for the consequences we have now.

There is no lasting anger nor acrimony on either my part nor that of Newt (which should tell you all something about him...) - just a slight change in how things are around here. Nothing too much to ask, no civil liberties being impeded, just a new limitation on PUBLIC discourse regarding a topic that has little if anything to do with Com-Pac sailboats. You are totally free to share your political discussions, links, or whatever via the Private Message system here.

There will be a new "Off Topic" area soon, where the community can share things which may not be strictly sailing- or Com-Pac- related, but it will be there to be used with the understanding that it is NOT for political posts or other types of postings of a type which would fall outside the pale of the "Golden Rule".

Simple enough?

Last - I want to reiterate that Newt acts with my authority here. When nobody else would offer to help, he did. And he has. And he has done a great job of it. For that, I owe him my Thanks and loyalty and understanding. Perhaps some others should do the same.

For clarity: where I might be considered the Captain of this ship, he would be the First Mate. As such, when I am not on watch, he is your Captain, and so commands your respect, or at the very least, deference.

If you have an issue with him, then you bring it to ME to get handled. It will, as fairly and honestly and as transparently as is needed. I've demonstrated the ability to do that in the - what, 7, 8, or more years - that I have been providing the CPYOA website to the community.

So, carry on. have fun, enjoy yourselves while talking about and sharing information regarding your sailboats, and be nice to one another...

Doesn't sound so bad to me...

[brackish]

With all due respect, Capt K., you have decreed that there will be no more political posts and that there will be no debate on the issue.  So be it, I don't intend to debate the decision.

But since you responded specifically to my post, I find it mildly insulting to be admonished as if I don't know what I'm talking about.  What I've been told is that a few people have abused the privilege of posting in the off topic section in some manner.  I also have been told that a few people have complained about it, the inference being that the complaints themselves might have been abusive in nature.  As a result of that, the privilege of having civil off topic discussions, free from topic restrictions has been revoked for all.   

While you might consider that the right thing to do, it is what it is.  Instead of dealing with the offending parties, the privilege was revoked for all.  The loudly vocal minority prevailed.

This will kind of be a boring place when the boats are put up for the winter

[Potcake boy]

Capt. K

I back your decision to ban politics and religion here suitable topics.

Well, I can't say it's a shame that it has come to this, cause it has been on this course for some time.  I enjoy and learn from debates about policy that concerns me and I have my opinions as well as any one, but there does seem to be a group here that are on a campaign to annihilate any opposing views instead of learning from them and so that's just plain ole fighting.  Though I don't feel that we should be intimidated by a minority of boisterous voices, this is after all primarily a sailing forum, and most sailors I know wouldn't go to a rowdy bar after a day of sailing. Funny thing is these disruptive tactics are the same basics used by terrorists that some self proclaimed conservatives claim to loath.

I don't debate religion because it doesn't effect me and everyone is entitled to practice it in the fashion they find suitable for themselves, and yes my friends that does include Muslims and Hindus and Budhists and Jews.

If you can't have civil debate on policy then it's no more than a waste of time.  People with dogmatic opinions don't respect other's views anyway.

NEWT - don't take it personal - there are plenty of jerks, but there are even more nice people - especially in Com Pacs.

Thank you,
Ron

[newt]

This whole thing is kinda funny because my politics (which i do not share on the web) are basically conservative. But cannot stand by people being rude for any reason.  Capt K and I have had a few discussions on this. When he first put me in as moderator, he told me to give lots of leeway and basically let the forum develop. Only when things got critical did I ask his help- and help he had done....many times in the past and also today. He has forgotten more about running a forum than I will ever learn- and puts alot of money into keeping this forum alive.
A few of us tried to help financially in the past, only to be refused.
To say I have a high opinion of him would be an understatement.
Now as to me being a moderator- I would have to admit that I could do things better. This is something that comes after my family, business and boat. But I am trying to be fair and keep the community welcoming. "Be Nice" is probably the most important thing we can do to each other. If you want my viewpoints on the world, your going to have to sit down with me and a pizza...

[don l]

Thanks Newt,  and Capt K.  Oh yes, I like the pizza idea!

[Bob23]

Newt: You buy the pizza and I'll buy the beer. But you'll have to come back east for the best pizza- nobody makes it like us!
Brack: This ain't gonna be a boring place if I have anything to say about it! And for you nay-sayers- just wait till I start posting pictures. And wait. And wait. And keep waiting!
Bob23

[CaptK]

But since you responded specifically to my post, I find it mildly insulting to be admonished as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

Admonishment towards you and your post most definitely *not* intended... But I did want you - and anyone else who might consider it such - to understand that I don't "cave in". Don't, won't, and haven't.

What I've been told is that a few people have abused the privilege of posting in the off topic section in some manner.  I also have been told that a few people have complained about it, the inference being that the complaints themselves might have been abusive in nature.  As a result of that, the privilege of having civil off topic discussions, free from topic restrictions has been revoked for all.   

While you might consider that the right thing to do, it is what it is.  Instead of dealing with the offending parties, the privilege was revoked for all.  The loudly vocal minority prevailed.

Perhaps I was not clear enough. This is not directly due to any abuse of the off-topic postings or posters. This is ENTIRELY the result of those who took it upon themselves to get personally 'ugly' in how they deal with Newt when he attempted to keep that section on an even keel and to keep that from happening.

I can most certainly let others have their opinions. Even when they are wrong (lol, and tongue in cheek ). But abusing my bud Newt, that went over the line, and as the root cause was friction which developed due to off topic postings, I elected of my own will to kill the problem at its root. Saves me and Newt lots of time and trouble and consternation. Comprende? We both have other, much more important things to deal with...

For the record: There really has been no minority or majority on the whole "Off Topic" subject. Trust me in that the numbers are pretty much the same, in that as many people didn't want it, as did. I have received lots of input and response via PM, beyond that which was indicated by the poll which I posted a long time ago.

As long as it didn't cause problems, I elected to let it ride. When problems started, I killed it. Simple as that. No hard feelings, no judgement, just a "business decision" of sorts.

This will kind of be a boring place when the boats are put up for the winter

That's up to y'all. But I doubt it.

So, brackish (are you Don Bracken from way back when?): My apologies for not being clear and as a result causing you to feel that I was busting your chops personally. That was not my intention at all.

Potcake/Ron makes a good point that I've brought up before, having noticed it while living aboard these last 7 years in a marina which gets lots and lots of visitors from all over the country and even world at times: folks who've just met on the dock don't talk politics. They talk about boats, mostly. Or anchors, weather, charts, etc... I'd even venture to say that politics in that sort of situation is avoided; I really don't care what they think about WRT politics, and they certainly don't care about mine. I AM interested in their trips, experiences, gear, etc... and vice versa. THAT is what is most important to us as sailors, as a community, out in "meatspace", the REAL world.

Food for thought...

[Bob23]

   Good food, CaptK...I'll chomp on it a while. I think this is gonna be an interesting change for the site. And while I participated in the political discussions of the moment from time to time, I also didn't appreciate the hostility that reared it's ugly head occasionally. I wisely refrained from opening my big mouth recently because  it seems that these days, political discussions seem to divide more than they used to.
   In re-reading your post, maybe we all owe you a debt of thanks for redirecting us back to reality, aka the Real World. Perhaps political "discussions" are akin to comparing the different dog-shits we have stepped and insisting that mine doesn't smell as bad as yours. Just some early morning commentary- more food for thought!
  We experience a pertinent event at family gatherings. My father-in-law, 91 and has sailed for 75 years and my brother in law are both quite intelligent with opposing political views. (For the record, I am not quite as intelligent as either but some readers will remember that I am an amateur genius). A fun thing that I used to like to do is to utter just one line of political commentary and then just step out of the picture while the two of them go at if for the next 2 hours. I've stopped that practice because it often turned ugly with neither party willing to listen to the other.  
   So ends an era and begins a new one! I'll be sticking around for a while.
Bob23- off to grind the beans to make the coffee that makes Bob go!
 

[brackish]

(are you Don Bracken from way back when?)

No, the pseudonym is a shortened version of Brackish-at-best which came about from many years of fishing with my Brother in Law in the backwaters of the Mississippi Gulf.  The ever variable salinity of the water tends to indicate where and how one should fish.  My BIL would always ask "You think this water is salt or fresh?" I'd always reach down and taste a little, and the normal response was "Brackish-at-best".  Just a pseudonym, real info is on the registry.

The goal of protecting Newt, our valued volunteer moderator from an onslaught is a worthy one.  I would have used a different method, but I'm not in the hot seat.  No offense taken.

[Nicolina]

CaptK, Newt,

In my humble view, you've made exactly the right decision. This is a useful and interesting forum, we should respect each other as sailors and Compac owners, and leave religion, politics and other inflammatory yet unrelated aspects of our lives somewhere else - not because these topics should not be discussed at all, but because they easily lead to all-too-heated discussions in this anonymous setting and poison the camaraderie. Thank you for doing the right thing!