First sail

[CaptRon28]

Got the boat into the water today. Maybe 5 to 6 knots of wind for 2  or 3 hours, until it just about died. Perfect day for a test sail on a new boat. I like it, but I've got to fix a few things or learn how to do it correctly. Never sailed a cat boat before. The questions -

Is there any reason why I can't install lazy jacks on a gaf rigged boat? The sail is a real handfull especially when single-handed. By next week I'm doing something about it.

Tried to raise the mast with the gin pole. Loads seem to be way too high so I gave up and walked it up. Assuming I did want to use the pole eventually, are the loads supposed to be this high? My gin pole must be about 3 feet long and has a plastic notch on the outside end. I'm assuming that that notch goes into the bottom of the forestay near the quick release. Theres a fitting crimped about 2 inches from the release and it looks like that's where the notched pole goes (between this fitting and the release). Are you supposed to walk it up part way, then grind?

The Yanmar is fairly smooth for a one banger, but it is LOUD. Needs some sound / heat insulation inside the engine box. I've had 60 HP Yanmars which were much quieter.

I've got to install something to flush the salt water out of the engine block. I can almost hear the iron corroding. Maybe a "T" fitting between the seacock and strainer, with a hose going to a bucket of fresh water or antifreeze or rust inhibiter or ??

Ron M
Horizon Cat, Telstar 28

[kobo]

Ron,

I have Harken Lazy Jacks on my Horizon. I highly recommend it. I had the same problem with the "Gin" pole. I called Compac, Gerry Hutchison said that the mast was so easy to walk up that it would be best. I have found he is right. I have never had a problem walking it up. I know they have that video that makes it look so easy but I could never master the Gin Pole and winch.  Regarding the engine noise. I too to found  it a little noisy. Then I found a company called Sailor Solutions. www.sailorssolutions.com  They carry a product called SPM Engine Compartment Soundproofing Peel and Stick Tiles. I did my entire engine compartment. It is easy to intall. I would buy an 18 pack. They were a nice improvement. They reduce sound and heat. If you need advise you can email me.  I guess you could install something to flush  the engine out. I do not believe that is necessary. The yacht club where I keep my Horizon has a lot of boats with Yanmar Diesels. No one flushes them out. Those engines were made for salt water. If you have any questions about your Horizon please email I will be glad to help.

Kobo (Capt Mike)

[CaptRon28]

Kobo (or Mike?) -

There's a difference between the 1GM10 and just about all of the other Yanmars. They have a fresh water sealed cooling system that itself is cooled by seawater running thru a heat exchanger (like a radiator). You don't get seawater inside of the engine block. The 1GM10 pumps seawater inside the block - no heat exchanger. Salt water is very capable of causing corrosion inside this cast iron assembly. I spoke to a tech rep at Yanmar and they suggest that it would be a good idea to pump fresh water or non-toxic antifreeze thru the engine rather than leave the salt water there. It will NOT drain by itself if you haul or put it on the trailer.

I will be splicing a "T" into the intake hose probably when I get the boat up to NJ next month. I've got more tools there. The T will have a valve and hose attached, so all I have to do is close the through-hull seacock, stick the hose into a pail of water (or anything else), open that valve and run the motor for a minute or so. I could run a solution  of water and rust-inhibitor thru as well.

Ron M

[kobo]

Ron,
Kobo is a nickname. My real name is Mike. Capt. Mike comes from my profession as a Licensed Boat Captian. I know it is confusing. That is interesting about the Yanmar. I am aware of how the engine is cooled. I have spent several years running sail charters in the US and British Virgin Islands. No one seemed to have a problem with the smaller Yanmars cooled as the 1GM10 is. Several other makes of Diesel engines use the same type of cooling system. I guess you will have to defer to what the factory rep told you. Anyway I was just answering your questions based on my experience. I hope I helped with your other questions regarding Lazy Jacks and Engine noise. Experience is the best teacher. I hope you really enjoy your Horizon. It is quite a boat. Once you learn how to handle a Gaff Rig I believe you will love it. Never let anyone tell you they don't sail well in light air! Best of luck to you. Happy Sailing.

[CaptRon28]

Mike -

Any metal (and especially cast iron) will suffer in salt water long term. It will probably be OK for a couple of years, but the corrosion will take its toll in the end. Heavy rust, clogged coolant passages, and eventually total deterioration of the metal itself. Ever dive on a 100 year old steamer? Not a pretty site. The problem is the salt water will stay in the block no matter where the boat is - in the water or on the trailer. I't not a bad idea to get it out if you can. It's fairly easy to do if you're set up for it. Just stick a hose in a bucket of water and run the motor for a minute. I probably won't do this every time, but if I know the boat will be sitting on the trailer (or at a slip) for a week or two it would be worth the extra 2 minutes of work. The tech guy at Yanmar admitted he would do it if it was his motor. Changing the zinc at least once a year would be a good idea as well. We don't need electrolysis on top of the corrosion build-up.

[Salty19]

Ron-Not sure if a salt neutralizer in the pale of fresh water would help you, but at least wanted to make you aware they exist:

http://rustremoverproducts.com/Prevent_Corrosion_with_Salt_Neutralizer.htm

There are a lot of sound absorbing products out there.  Check out SecondSkinaudio.com.  I've used their Firewall product on my car with great success. 

By the way..very nice boat!!!

[CaptRon28]

Thanks for the link. The salt neutralizer looks interesting. When I get the boat up to NJ next month I'll look around at what's available. Non-toxic antifreeze is one other option which will apparently stop the corrosion. They make other rust preventing chemicals for automotive applications too.

[Glenn Basore]

Capt Ron,

Anti freeze for flushing, will that work on my out board (4 hp 4 stroke ) as well ? at what ratio do you mix it with water ?

I have an oil barrel (50gal) that I could sit the motor in and add the anti freeze.

I ususally just hook my hose up to it but wasn't really sure it was flushing all the salt out.

Glenn

[CaptRon28]

Hard to say - some outboards are almost self draining. My Telstar's Honda 20 has a garden hose adapter where I can push the salt water out or maybe run it for a minute with fresh water to do the same. Ditto for a Merc 250 power head instaled in a jet boat. If there is any chance of freezing, I would try to get some antifreeze in there. Salt definitely corrodes nearly all metals and it would probably not be best to leave it in there long term.

That said, how many powerboaters actually do any of the above? Maybe they pump some beer in there?  I always pump in fresh water after I use  the 20 foot SeaDoo Challenger. AND - when I leave the boat in the water for more than a day I hook up a water timer to do it 4 or 5 times a day automatically. Salt water will tend to migrate back in and this periodic flushing gets it out. This could be overkill, but ?

I think we're OK flushing it out with fresh water.

[Glenn Basore]

Capt Ron,

I flush my motor as soon as I pull the boat out of the water. I hook a hose to a plug turn the water on and run the motor at a low rpm for about 2 or 3 minutes and then shut the motor off and disconnect the hose.

I don't know if I'm running the motor long enough but I wait until the water being discharge is warm and then turn the motor off.

[Shawn]

Glenn,

"I hook a hose to a plug turn the water on and run the motor at a low rpm for about 2 or 3 minutes and then shut the motor off and disconnect the hose."

You sure you should be running it with just the flush hose hooked up? If the water pump impeller isn't submerged it shouldn't be run as it is bad for it.

Shawn

[Craig Weis]

First run of the season on the Mercury 5 hp 2 stroke O/B is done with the churn mounted onto a 2x4 cantilevered out from my work table vice [a salvaged 72lb'er when the RR roundhouse burned down] and into a plastic garbage can full of water and running off the internal tank. Once it's tuned up and adjust to run Fwd-N-Rev I hang the engine on the motor mount and stick the boat into the water. I don't have to worry about saltwater.

Funny, one of my partners I worked with at Palmer Johnson Yachts asked me if that water out there [water of Green Bay and Lake Michigan] was saltwater? He was from India.

So far each season she starts easy with just a half dozen pulls. At the end of the season I always run her dry, then WD-40 the beast.

skip.

[CaptRon28]

Second sail and next question -

When raising the sail - how far up the mast do the gaf and boom wind up? I'm getting some friction from both slides and I'm stopping at a point where the boom is maybe 4 inches BELOW the mast hinge and the gaf's slide is about 16 inches from the turning block. Don't want to force it but I think I should be higher. Does the boom wind up above the hinge? Checking out these 2 slides, the track, and maybe some lube could be in order?

Better techique might help as well. I'm trying to keep the gaf more or less horizontal during the pull and drop, but that could increase the friction on the boom's slide. I figure it it's higher that would only increase the gaf's friction. Could or should I pin the boom (long fast pin) above the hinge before I raise the sail?

Installed a home made lazy jack system before the second sail. Really helps a lot.  First sail was all over the place, second almost a neat pile. A little fine tuning should get this exactly right. Local West Marine didn't have any of the Harken systems in stock and I think the price was way too much anyway. And I don't think they were designed for a cat boat - the boom is a lot longer than the recommended size for a 20 to 25 foot boat. Probably would have to order the large boat system which is overkill.

Will probably do one more Horizon sail before I trailer it. I need the dock space to get the Telstar off of the lift, and since I'm leaving the trimaran down here I'd like to use it a few more times before the trek north in about 3 weeks.

[kobo]

Ron,
I keep the boom above the pin. That seems to be the best position. Yes the slides can stick. A little lube is in order. Once the boom is above the hinge pin the gaff will go to the correct height. It is best to raise the the gaff slightly higher than horizontal when hoisting the main. When I let the sail down I also keep it at a higher angle. I have read that some people have installed a down haul on the Gaff so that if it sticks they can pull it down. One guy stated that the gaff downhaul was his wifes favorite thing he had installed on the boat. I don't have one. My gaff does not seem to stick. The lazy jacks are a nice addition. The small Harken system did have to be modidifed (actually shorten). However it works quite well. The larger system is way to big. You are right. The Harken system is exspensive. A lot of people like yourself have made their own. Well I have to go now. My son is meeting me @ the boat and we are going sailing on the bay this morning. Happy sailing to you. You have got to love your triamaran.

[Craig Weis]

El Cap-a-ton-o Ron 28 writes, "When raising the sail - how far up the mast do the gaff and boom wind [wind?] up? I'm getting some friction from both slides and I'm stopping at a point where the boom is maybe 4 inches BELOW the mast hinge and the gaff's slide is about 16 inches from the turning block. Don't want to force it but I think I should be higher. Does the boom wind up above the hinge? Checking out these 2 slides, the track, and maybe some lube could be in order?"

skipster is thinking that some hints and tips can be had from carefully looking at the Com-Pac web site and look~see at the full sailing pictures of both the Picnic Cat, Sun Cat and Horizon Cat in order to learn where the boom, gaff, and the angle of the gaff might be. I'm pretty sure the 'factory' pictures show the boat in it's best trim. Does the owner's manual have any ideas...?

I know that my neighbor, a Marine Designer of ferry boats and yachts in Sturgeon Bay, sails a 20 foot Cat Boat and can pull the gaff to near vertical, making his sail look like a Marconni rig.

Just a thought. skip.