Wax & Buff Topsides

[tmolik]

Does anyone know the proper procedure for using a buffer to apply wax, and buff, the sides of a boat ? Wax on the buffer first .... or hand apply, then use buffer to take off. It's much esier to hand apply, then buff off, but is this the correct method with the best results ??
tom

[Craig Weis]

A motorized buffer? Don't do it. Once you burn through, it's hard to fix the plastic.

With boat on trailer, I use Meguires #49 compound and HAND WAX with a terry cloth towel and I do the boat in about 6 sq inches at at time, in the sun. Any speck that is in the 6 sq in is worked on until it is gone. If it does not look like a mile deep in shine I keep rubbing and compounding. There is no easy way to work the surface of fiberglass. When perfect, Mother's Wax by hand.

I NEVER USE A MECHANICAL BUFFER, I'm just not coordinated enough, because to me I miss too much dirt. And I might buff off the 'so called' gel coat. I do much better by hand. No buffer for me.

One day one side. Next day other side. One day topside with nylon brush and Clorox Clean-up. Then Mother's Wax.
Chrome Polish compound inside the cockpit then Mother's Wax. This you can do floating at the dock or sailing with the tiller dogged down and sails set.

skip.

[tmolik]

skip
I found a site where almost all use a porter-cable buffer for their boat.

use google..."wax and buffer boat",

go down to "continuouswave..." and check their site.
tom

[Salty19]

I just restored the finish on a 19 to new looking from badly oxidized.

Here's what I did...you can skip the sanding steps I suspect unless you really do want a brand new looking finish and have some time to make it happen.

1.) Wash hull /topsides thoroughly with Soft scrub then Hull cleaner (oxylic acid).  Dry Hull with clean towel.
2.) Rub a claybar with soap lube across gelcoat to pick up micro fragments of debris. This avoid grinding in contaminates into the gelcoat.  Amazing what a claybar will do for your auto finish as well.
3.) Wetsand the gelcoat.  Started with 800 grit, then 1000, then 1500, then 2000. Sand in ONE direction only and keep the sanding block wet and clean continuously with a water steam.
4.) 3M Super Rubbing compound applied with a Porter Cable variable speed polisher (NOT BUFFER!!!).  The polishers are way more powerful. Remove with microfiber towel.  Did this step twice.  I suggest using a compound with no artificial shiny enhancers (ie silicone).  Check the label or just get 3M compound.
5.) 3M Finesse It II glaze, applied with same polisher with a softer pad and removed with a microfiber towel. Also did this step twice.
6.) Colinite Fleet paste wax.  Applied by hand, removed by hand. Three times.


The polishers are a little tricky but you'll get the hang of it quickly.  Do read up on the types of application pads, wool pads, etc that you need. Start with abrasive pads and abrasive compounds, end with soft pads and less abrasive compounds. 

I initially bought the polisher to shine up my cars...and they are great for that job too.  You just have to be more gentle on the cars (lower motor speed, lower pressure applied by your arms) as paint is relatively soft compared to gelcoat.   Also you have to know when to stop polishing the area you're working in.  Typically about 10 polisher passes over an area is enough.  On autos you only take about 5 passes on the polisher in any one area.

You're looking at close to $300 by the time you buy the polisher, compound, glaze, wax, polishing pads, wool pads and microfiber towels.  Enough sandpaper to restore a 19 will run you about $100 if you're up for restoring the hull too.

With all this said...I tried to use the machine on my old 16 topsides.  On the smooth "flat" hull the polisher works great.  But all the corners, nooks and crannies in the topsides made it very hard to use the polisher.  On the compansion way "wall" and cockpit floor sides it will save you a little effort and time.  You'll have to use your hand to get into the corners, around the toerail and coamings, and around hardware.  I suggest using a magic eraser on the topsides. first after you intitially clean it with Hull Cleaner to take off the initial layer of oxidation.  Then use compound by hand.  If the first couple of attempts fail (ie compound not coming off with a rag), you either have to clean it off with a magic eraser and try again or get out the fine sandpaper.  Save sanding for the last resort, it's not easy to make it look good without a polisher to do the hard work for you.  I suspect after two or three sessions of hand rubbing compound it will start to look good again. But don't apply the way just yet..use  glaze like 3M Finesse It to really make it shine.  Remember wax has no abrasive qualities.  Wax will do nothing for the quality of the shine/finish.  It just protects from the sun and minor scratches..

As you've found, there is a lot of info on the web that talks about the polishers.  My vote is if you only want to restore only topsides, don't bother with a polisher.  But if you want to do the whole boat and you want to shine up your autos too, the polisher will pay for itself.  I polish the cars yearly and they all look new.   Send me an email if you want more info..

autogeek.com is where I bought the polishing stuff, Defender marine has the compounds, glaze and waxes.

[tmolik]

to salty19
is the polisher the porter-cable 7424xp...is this also orbital, etc., different sites seem not to have the same description for the same product..
thanks for the info..it really helps alot..
tom

[brackish]

to salty19
is the polisher the porter-cable 7424xp...is this also orbital, etc., different sites seem not to have the same description for the same product..
thanks for the info..it really helps alot..
tom

Both the 7424 and the 7424xp are variable speed, random orbit.  Difference is the xp draws a half amp more and has a slightly higher orbits per minute rate.  I used to work for the Pentair Tool Group (prior to them selling out to B & D).  I own Porter Cable electric corded tools exclusively.  In the old days you couldn't do better.  Can't speak for the present.

[Napier6]

I have to agree with Salty19 about the polisher.  I lightly compounded my Eclipse three months ago with "3M Finesse It II glaze" ($24+), great stuff!  I did not use microfiber but old t-shirts (clean). I started with "On-Off Hull" and Bottom Cleaner on the scum line and then moved to the light compounding.  I used my GM auto buffer and I must say I'll be looking for a polisher in the future.  It worked very well, but took more time than I would have liked.  It did keep me from removing too much material.  I only had light oxidization not the serious job Salty had.  I finished the job with "3M-Marine Ultra Performance Wax" ($26+).  As my guide I used a how-to I found on www.jamestowndistributors.com. 

[Salty19]

I'm pretty sure mine is the non-xp.  I would go with that one as speed 6 of 10 is just right for removing oxidation from gelcoat and you can dial it down to 3 or so for auto paint.  I do not recall how many amps it pulls..probably about 6 @ 120V.

Note:  the polishers are not really the best tool for waxing..that is best done by hand.  The polisher is a substitute for elbow grease when you need rotation speed and pressure for the micro-abrasives in compounds and polishes. The abrasives are what brings out the shine.  Again wax does nothing for shine, it's just protection from the elements.  However you can remove the wax with a micro-fiber bonnet.  You'll need 4 or 5 of them for a CP16. That will save you some time, but wax comes off pretty easy with a clean, smooth, polished finish.

Also don't get wrapped up in those all in one cleaner polish waxes.  Those mostly contain silicone to obtain the shine.  Even the 3M version contains silicone. They do none of their intended tasks well. 

[nies]

Wax.........used them all, and I mean all over the years............two coats of inexpensive "KIT" wax in spring, works great........over the season all wax deterorates, don't waste money and hard labor on expensive products...............Phil

[Salty19]

nies--Don't confuse polishing and waxing.  They are separate processes and produce separate results.  One shines, one protects.  Hard labor is not needed for waxing (well not much anyway) , but it is for polishing and removing oxidation.  Thus the machine is suggested.   I do not consider polishing items a waste of money at all...in fact they add more value than they cost.  Longer life of gelcoat, better resale value and higher owner satisfaction.

[tmolik]

to Salty19..
I'm set on a polisher, polish, wax, etc....what I don't know is how many....what kind of....what size...and where from....

buffer pads to get...??
regards

[Bob23]

For what it's worth:
   I've been using 3M liquid wax as a final coat after cleaning, light compounding when I first got her. I've gotten great life out of this wax. I didn't get a chance to wax her when I put her away in fall of 2008, got too lazy to wax when I put her in spring of 2009, again got lazy at fall 2009 haul out and she's still got a mirror finish right now. Of course, she's covered up all nice and cozy all winter.
Bob23

[Salty19]

Tom-

I got everything at autogeek.com.  It's the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher Model 7424.  I seem to recall your confusion when looking too. Some sell the backing plate separately and confuse you on pricing.

As for stuff you need...

This one to "cut" which means it's abrasive.  That's a GOOD thing at the first step of making it shiny. Use it with plenty of rubbing compound and buff, buff, buff until dry.

http://www.autogeek.net/75inholodu10.html

Then this one is better for polishing with Finesse It II and appying wax.
http://www.autogeek.net/lc-foam-wool-pads.html

Here's all the choices for the 7424 dual action polishers
http://www.autogeek.net/dual-action-foam-pads.html

Some of others are foam based, which is fine to use on the boat, but Wool is supposedly better, or so "they" say.  I've used them and they work good.
Buy some for your car/trucks. The color determines the abrasiveness, but read the description of course. Get the whole kit if your wallet allows or just get one compounding (orange??) and one polishing and maybe one middle range if you're really want to get into it with all your shiney parts.  The wool and foam add the effectiveness of the product you're applying.  But you need to match the pad to the product. Hard cutting rubbing compound needs a harder cutting pad than Glazes", polishes. Wax should have the softest pad available. And of course you're going to need plenty of micrifber towels and the little hand applicators for the curves where the machine won't get to (and there will be a lot of them!).
Be really sure the surface is super clean before you start polishing away.  Dirt will just grind into the gelcoat. Oh and for your cars, try Maquire's Professional Glaze for cars that don't look toobad.   (less than 7 or 8 years old). It will shine them up nicely. Then wax.

I assure you there is a reward at the end of the rainbow. It's still hard work even with a polisher, they do have soem weight to them. But this seems to be the safest way for a layman like us to get the job the done.  Some of the other polishers are a lot more powerful and not random orbital and should not be used by us.  Get the dual action. Good luck. 

Mike

[tmolik]

To Salty19/Mike,
thanks for the info..I've sailed Lakes Erie and Michigan, the Gulf & Atlantic, also have USCG 100 ton license & USPS Certified Navigator...but I'm like a freshman when it comes to doing a good polish job.
I bought a 7424XP polisher from AutoGeek @ $119 plus tax, am looking to order some bonnents based on your recomendations ... are there any other add-ons necessary for the 7424XP that I need to get
thanks again
tom

[Salty19]

Nothing else from what's been mentioned. Polisher, polish, wool cutting pads, wool polish pad, foam pads (for the car if needed and also are fine for the boat), microfiber towels (I get 'em at Sam's Club for cheap, wax, hand applicators and a weekend.