Engine Re-fit

[jimyoung]

After years of feeling as though Miss B ('86 Mark I) just didn't have enough motoring power when going "to weather" or trying to fight Intercostal opposing currents under a bridge span I have decided to replace the 11hp Universal and put a bit more power in her britches.

My first thought is to replace it with the 18 hp Westerbake that the newer 27's have and would love to hear from owners that have them about likes/dislikes. This seems like the "smartest" refit as I would at least know it can be done.

Would also love to hear from anyone that has made this change-out? Did you change out the transmission as well?

Also a poll.... If you could refit with any engine in the 18 - 22 hp range which would it be?

Any and all comments, words of advice, opinions, and recommendations are appreciated.

Capt'n Jim

[Nicolina]

Interesting subject. Did you consider the Beta Marine engines? I'd also speak with Gerry Hutchins; the guys at the factory must know why they selected the Westerbeke and what else may work. I remember hearing some rumour that the Westerbeke proved less reliable than the old Universal.

[doug]

I know that Compac has put a Yanmar in at least one 27 (we looked at this craft a year or so ago only to have it sold before we could make up our minds)
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=2125152&ybw=&hosturl=tredavon&&ywo=tredavon&&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1862&url=&hosturl=tredavon&&ywo=tredavon&

doug

[Craig Weis]

[jimyoung]

Thanks guys for the input... The Yanmar and Westerbeke are both considerations and am trying to assemble a file of information on both so to make a somewhat informed decision.  Skip, the flier was nice but I cannot make out to see if it mentions hp or brand if aux power that is being put in the new models.  Haven't talked to the Hutchins people, have been looking for an excuse to get up to Clearwater area and stop by and visit again but may have to resort to e-mail or phone.

Again, thanks for the input and as soon as it warms up a little (got down to 42 F last night!) I'll get out back and do some preliminary work to remove the Universal that is there.

Will keep up-dated on the progress.
Jim

[Nicolina]

I look forward to hearing how things develop. By the way, you're lucky - it was 26 F when I left for work this morning ...

[jimyoung]

After doing some limited research and talking with the guys at Compac, I will be looking for a "deal" on the Westerbeke 20B as the refit engine and transmission at the Miami boat show in Feb.  (Is anyone from this area planning on going?)

Now to find someone to help with the installation.......

[Craig Weis]

jimyoung, "Skip, the flier was nice but I cannot make out to see if it mentions hp or brand if aux power that is being put in the new models."

The literature below says "two cylinder fresh water cooled diesel" [not for salt water?]
So that leaves it open to what ever Com-Pac could get their hands on and for the best price.
And "she turns in her own length". So does my C-P 19 with a turn on the outboard.

Question: I'm not sure why you need a new engine? Just asking because the only difference between a new engine and one in need of rebuild or replacement is about 1-1/2 once of metal in the oil pan.  If no rods are sticking outside of the block it ought to be rebuildable. Can't have a lot of time on it. I mean not like 200,000 miles on the clock. Just a car guy prospective. If your in salt could be rotted away inside the cooling jackets. You might want to consider a water cooled muffler and running a close loop cooling system. Dad had that on his fresh water boats even.

skip.

[brackish]

Also a poll.... If you could refit with any engine in the 18 - 22 hp range which would it be?

Capt'n Jim

A brand new universal medalist atomic four.   Only this time around with electronic fuel injection and ignition.  Smoother, quieter, less smelly, and easier to work on,  (at least for me).

Actually, I think they were thirty horsepower, but with less weight per hp produced.

I had one for 16 years.  Liked it better than any diesel I've been around.  Too bad liability issues and international fuel availability killed them off for marine use (or so I've been told those are the reasons).

[jimyoung]

Skip,
Both the old and the new engines are "closed circuit" fresh water cooled, using only "raw" water through the heat exchanger only with it's dedicated raw water water pump.

Also you are correct, in the 21+ years of owning Miss B I have only put a total of 800 hrs on the little engine, and plan on attaching a "genset" to it and having a diesel powered hurricane emergency power supply (no-one here has gasoline then, everyone has a boat at the dock with diesel on board). The main problem is 11hp is just not enough push when facing a nose blow or a current under a raised bridge of more than 4 knots (common on the big ditch where I live).  I once spent 18 minutes getting through the bridge at Lighthouse Point Inlet against an opposing current. Once committed I couldn't turn around so I just spent the time smiling and waving to the bridge tender while he flashed me some VERY bad looks.  Probably why Compac put the larger engine in later year models of the same boat.

Thanks for the reply, and I had a CP19 before Miss B.  A great boat.

Jim

[jimyoung]

Brackish,

I am not familiar with the engine that you suggested but with "electronic ignition" this tells me that it is a gasoline engine? I really need to stay with a diesel power plant.  i did look at the newer Universal engines and have not ruled them out, but in my limited research the common repair parts seem to be difficult to obtain and very expensive (not that the westerbeke or yanmar aren't, just more competition with those two models around here and so you can occasionally find a deal or two)

Jim

[brackish]

You missed the smile, Jim.  You can't get a new atomic four.  It was the predominant auxiliary power plant for sail boats up until about 1978.  Many thousands in use back then, but because some folks could not seem to remember the sequence, turn the blower on first, then turn the ignition on, fell out of favor.

It was (is) a great engine.  Many still in use today.  The one I had for 16 years is now actually 33 years old and still going strong. Since the motor was also used for welding machines, small fork trucks, generators, and pumps in the industrial environment, parts were available at any industrial parts supplier for a lot less than a marine supplier.

A fellow named Moyer in Pennsylvania keeps the last of them alive by gathering up and rebuilding blocks, heads and other parts.

[jimyoung]

Guess you went right over my head with that one.....  My sailing experience before moving to Florida in '85 was on Texas lakes and neither the 19 Compac or any of the Hobie Cats we raced ever had any form of aux power. Common feeling between Cat sailors was "if you couldn't get there and back under sail.....stick your arms in the water and paddle" and the only engines that were not outboards, in my universe were small block Chevy's or V twin Harleys.  Missed out altogether on the atomic fours.... Did have a friend that had an old Indian that had an in-line four that he referred to as an "Atomic Four" though I am sure that's not the same

[jimyoung]

As an up-date I have decided to go with the Yanmar 3YM20 as the refit engine of choice.  I had pretty much made up my mind on the Universal M3-20B when I entered the Miami boat show, but the seemingly un-intrest by the Westerbeke people at the booth and the $1500 boat show price difference the Yanmar won out.  It was also intresting just how many of the new sailboats that I looked at had the Yanmar powerplants in them.

Also looked at the Beta Marine engines..... Actually quite impressive, built on the same Kaubota (sp?) tractor engine as the Universal, and they had some good selling points about their product, but too were a little proud of their engines, about the same as Westerbeke, and had no stocking dealers in the area...... handling warranty claims through a "self warranty" program.

Only down side to the Yanmar is that I have to wait for one to be built, all in stock and currently on the production line are taken (seems sailboat construction is picking up and they got caught "short" on the 20hp.

Will have more when it is delivered.

[doug]

Jim,

I think you will be happy with the Yanmar. We have the 2YM15 on our Seaward 26rk and have never felt underpowered. The Yanmar seems to be the most common power plant on sailboats today. I'm hoping to get a chance get it rebuilt in 250,000 hours or so -- lets see if you sail 5 hours for every hour of motoring... we had best get spring soon so we can get sailing..cus I don't know how many years 1,000,000 sailing hours reprsent and we are not getting any younger.

doug