Battery Size

[kahpho]

I've been trying to find information on the battery supplied with my Legacy (original equipment). Searching this site and the web didn't turn up anything. So, when all else failed, I got off my ass, found a flashlight and went outside to stand on my head and read the label. "Why" you might ask. Well I've been trying to figure out what capacity I have to work with for lighting, radio, some sort of depth reading instrument and whatever else might be needed. Back to the point though... since I didn't find the information I was looking for here on this site, I decided to put what I found here for others who might be interested. I would think that the CP16 would be comparable.

TOYO 6GFM34, 34 amp hour @ 10 hour rate @ 77 degrees F
capacity affected by temperature, 85% @ 32 degrees F, 102% @ 104 degrees F

Full data sheet can be found at http://www.battery-usa.com/Catalog/6GFM34(12V34AH).PDF

mel

[Glenn Basore]

Mel,

Good work,

Now it has become part of the Com Pac source here on this forum.

Its people like you who have contributed to this site that makes this forum what it is today.

Glenn B.

[Craig Weis]

Hi Mel. Welcome aboard.
Start a 3~ring notebook for all the ship's papers. Now and for future. Like this to start.



OK, Figure all the consumables that suck electrons out of that little chemical reaction vessel known as the BATTERY.
Bare in mind that at freezing temperatures [32 deg F.] this 'chemical' reaction or battery capacity is about 1/2 of what it may be at around 70 deg F.

For example:

I'd recommend a battery condition meter of about 9 to 15 volt scale. And a kill switch.
Most electronic and electrical devices will have their amperage noted somewhere on the unit or the packaging. All my packaging info is within my ship's notebook. To give an idea of what is involved:

MY BATTERY IS--->Group 27 12V Deep-Cycle Marine Battery, 90Ah, CCA 575, 6-3/4" x 12-1/2" x 9-3/8"
$149.00 - $20 on sale.

~Navigation lights [red/green/white] 2 amps. [LED's will save even more amps from being drawn out of the battery]
~Steaming Light [Only on when motoring. Never when sailing]  1.5 amps.
~Masthead anchor light [Never 'on' when boat is moving]  0.3 amps.
~Wind Indicator  0.3 amps.
~Depth sounder  0.3 amps
~Speed/log  0.3 amps.
~Compass Light  0.1 amps. [My depth finder has a light so add that also.]
~Electric Bilge pump  10 amps.
~Refrigerator  8 amps.
~VHF-FM Transceiver  3 amps [Transmit] and 0.2 amps [receive]
~Self Steer  4 to 13 amps.
~am/fm/cd entertainment. With two speakers. Maybe 5 to 8 amps. [Depends on how hard you drive the speakers]

So a fully charged 60 amp/hour battery can deliver 60 amps for 1 hour; or 20 amps for 3 hours; or 3 amps for 20 hours. The product of amperes and hours indicate the rated capacity of the battery.

I can run my VHS radio on standby and Raymarine insturments all day on a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday [off at night. Insturement lamp 'off' during the day] on a cruise with modest cabin lights at night time and anchor light, on one battery charge. If I use my Chartplotter, I'll run out of juice on Sunday's return trip.

Although many of today's outboards do come with generators or alternators...

[Note that an alternator will provide zero power if the battery is dead flat. Alts require a battery input to produce juice. Generators do not.]

...and these units are indeed helpful, they are on the small side when it comes to providing useful electrical power. The Suzuki 9-1/2 hp, for instance, has an alternator that develops 80 watts, about enough to power a medium sized lamp in my house.

It may be easier to think about if I use some terms here: There are three common terms involved in the basics of electrical power, watts, volts, and amps. The Suzuki delivers its 80 watts at 12 volts, and to find its amperage, the usual term in witch alternator power is measured, one simply divids wattage by voltage, and in this case comes up with 6-1/2 amps, not a terribly impressive figure.

My Fluke meter says, my diode protected solar panel develops 300 miliamps [0.3 @15.3] at 15.3 volts in full sun. Or 0.0196078 amps. And amps are what you burn, or pull out of a 'storage' battery.

Actually batteries do not store anything. Complete a circuit and a chemical reaction occurs within the battery, creating electrons. So it figures; the more wetted plate surface area within the battery, the more amperes provided.

But this is strictly nominal. Given the vagaries of wiring systems and the marine environment, it is generally a mistake to expect more than half the rated amp/hour capacity from a battery. I go deep [cycle] draw marine battery.

If hooked up to a solar cell the water is constantly being 'boiled' out of the cells and making hydrogen/oxygen gases. I fried my previous battery this way. Boiled out the water over a couple of summers and crystallized the plates dry so no chemical reaction could occur. If only I checked the water covering the cells. Well there went a 1000 cold cranking amp battery.

So how much? List all the electrical gadgets aboard driven by the ship's battery and note their hourly current draw, then figure out the maximum number of hours you might use the consumables. Add up your hourly rates, multiply by two, and there you are.

For you old timers, 'OLD Faithful' , my Dell 8300 is back alive again.
skip.

[kahpho]

Thanks Glenn. When I searched this site, I found others asking for information about original equipment battery's, so it seemed there would be interest. Now it's here.

Skip... boy! you are detail oriented, aren'tcha... (lol). Sounds like you should have used a charge controller with that solar panel. Small ones (a few amps) are pretty cheap and would have saved the battery. I installed a (very) remote water level monitor/transmitter powered by a solar panel and two batteries. The batteries were still going strong after two years of unattended use.

As for the battery power budget, I'm thinking that I'll learn to live within the capacity I can fit in the space available. That means instead of the snazzy little chart plotter I was oogling at the marine store, I'll opt for a basic depth gauge which uses about 1/10th the power. With the money I save on that, I can see some LED lighting in my future too! The goal is to see how long of a trip I can do on a single charge, maybe with some supplemental solar. I don't think the solar would really add up to much though I haven't crunched the numbers yet. Winter is here, I have lots of time.

mel

[Potcake boy]

Mel,

I sail a 19 and the battery platform is large enough for a group 27, which is just shy of 100 ah rating, and I use a AGM.  I have changed all my lighting to LED and coming from a one charge for a two week cruise background, I am fairly conservative with power usage.  I use a depth finder most of the time when underway, and an autopilot a great deal on trips.  I do have a Garmin chart plotter (came with the boat) but don't use it very often.  I have one of those Sensai medium size solar panels that West marine sells and a 6amp rectifier on my Yamaha outboard.  The solar is connected through a regulator, and the rectifier also serves as a regulator for the motor provided current.  Both charging sources have a built in diode so there is no feed back either way.  So far the system has been self maintaining and the battery stays at or near a full charge (good for longevity in any battery technology).  I seldom have a need to run the motor at any more than half throttle, but running it at higher rpm you get a lot more excess output from the coil and it will charge the AGM battery very quickly.  My current set up is as close to perfect as I have ever had on a small boat and is one of those things that I no longer have to fret over.  I no longer need to use oil lamps in the cabin and small battery powered portable lights for anchoring - just flip the switch and Thomas Edison's dream is realized.

Ron

[zimm]

Thanks for the education, Skip! I have the notebook but I have a long way to go.

[kahpho]

Hi Ron,

Good information, thanks. My battery load will likely be somewhat conservative as well. Probably just lights, depth gauge, VHF and an old handheld GPS that I'm going to operate from 12V. I say handheld GPS but it's an old Magellan DX5000 from back in the day. Comparing this to a new portable GPS is like comparing a modern laptop to the old "luggables" from 20 years ago   But, it does what I need and the display is large enough to see from anywhere in the boat!

Your experience gives me some confidence that I'll be able to reach my goal of a week to ten days on one charge. I don't have room for a group 27 battery unless I expand the battery storage into other space. Not my first choice. However, my guess at this point, not having yet crunched the numbers, is I'll be able to manage.

Skip... I see you've edited your post and my guess concerning the charge controller may have been mistaken. Though, one would help prevent overcharging an already charged battery.

Mel

[CaptRon28]

In case anyone is interested, the battery seems to be a case size "U1". That size is mostly used for garden tractors, electric wheel chairs, etc. They come as both starter and deep cycle. My Telstar 28 has 2 of them - both AGM deep cycles made by Interstate Batteries (labeled MVP-U1 - for Mobility Value Plus). My Sears tractor has one and it's a starter type.

Ron M
Telstar 28 "Tri-Power"
looking to buy an Horizon Cat.

[Craig Weis]

To answer Kahp ho's  the original question, I don't know what battery is stock with the Legacy but my new battery is a--->West Marine, Group 27 12V Deep-Cycle Marine Battery, 90Ah, CCA 575, 6-3/4" x 12-1/2" x 9-3/8"
$149.00 - $20 on sale.
I looked. skip.

[Unclemike]

I'm in the process of buying a Legacy and we'll be powering (when absolutely necessary) with a 55 thrust lb electric motor. We're considering getting one deep cycle 175 amp hr battery. We're also considering getting a 15 w solar charger. If that doesn't seem to give us enough juice for the motor and other gadgets, we'll drop in another battery. If you're depending on an electric pusher, I'd imagine a much lighter/smaller battery would be sufficient.