Questions from an initial sail

[brackish]

Well after owning this 23 for three months and during that time doing six weeks of work to install many mods, (lots of waiting for the Fed Ex truck) watching it rain for three weeks straight then being out of town for a couple of weeks I finally got my first true all sails up sail this past week.  Went out a few other times motor only or Jib only to test mods or trouble shoot issues.  My initial full sail was great, but now the questions.

I was single handling which may be the case a lot, and while a reef in the main wasn't necessary, I went over in my head how I would do it.  I have a standard jiffy reef system which requires someone at the mast to simultaneously hook the reef point tack on the hook and pull and cleat the reefing line to adjust the clew reefpoint.  Considering adding a block to the mast, lengthening the line, running it through the tack reefpoint and using the spare halyard fairleads and line clutch to make the whole operation, including releasing the main halyard done from a single point in the cockpit.  Anyone done this and want to comment on how it went.   Maybe add a cleat to the mast to use the spare halyard with no place to be as the topping lift.

I have a track stop to keep the mainsail slides above the release slot in the mast when the main is lowered but the boom gooseneck is unsupported at this point and drops almost to the cabin trunk deck.  what do you use to get it up to normal covered height.  another stop?  So far, I've been just looping the downhaul through the reef ring and raising it back up and cleating on the downhaul cleat.  Keeps the weight on the last couple of slides, I guess this is OK.  any other methods in use.

Boat tracks fairly well, but I have an uninstalled tiller tamer (former owners didn't install it because their tiller cover wouldn't go over it) that I think I'm going to install.  I need another fifteen or twenty seconds to trim the headsail after a tack or jibe, legs just not long enough to handle the tiller.  I expect the tiller tamer will give me that without having to have a tiller pilot hooked up for the purpose.  Anyone using one.

All in all, I'm very satisfied with this boat.  A little more tender than the big boats in my past, but not uncomfortably so.  And it pointed better than I thought it would.

Frank

[kchunk]

Hi there Frank. Congrats on your first sail! I also downsized when I bought my Com-Pac 23 and ease of single handing is one of the things I appreciate most.

Like you, I went over and over my reefing system. My main has two reef points and other than a reefing hook, there was no other reefing hardware or system installed. What I've come up with is a jiffy reefing system with a cheek block and cleat mounted to the boom for each clew reef line. There are a couple things that make the reefing process a lot easier:

#1: Heave-to to reef. The main sail will be unloaded and usually heaving-to to one side or the other will make things easier, you'll have to decide with your setup which way is best for you.

#2: I use the spare halyard as a topping lift. When you're preparing to reef, trim the topping lift a bit and you keep the boom from crashing into the cockpit.

#3: I use three sail stops (this also applies to your second question); One above the gate, one below the gate and one below the boom (but low enough to allow adjusting the downhaul without contacting the stop.) The lowest stop prevents the boom from dropping to the deck. The middle stop prevents the boom from coming up out of the track as you're trying to hook the reef point. The uppermost stop keeps the sail slugs where they need to be.

#4: At the rope clutch, mark your main halyard approximately where each reef point will be set. This way you drop the main just enough for the reefing cringle to reach the hook.

To review the process: 1) heave to and ease the main sheet. 2) trim the topping lift. 3) ease the main halyard to your pre-marked point. 4) at the mast, pull the sail down and the boom up to hook the reefing cringle (ease the down haul if necessary)*. 5) trim your clew reefing line on your boom 6) once the tack is hooked and the clew trimmed, you trim the main halyard, ease the topping lift, gather up the loose part of the sail and secure with the reefing lines**, unlash the tiller and tack through the wind to continue on your merry way.

A couple notes:
* If you eased the downhaul for reefing, be careful you re-secure it before you trim the main halyard or you might pull out the middle stop and the boom from the mast gate.

** The reefing lines in the midfield of the sail are for gathering up the loose part of the reefed sail only! You'll certainly shred your main if you try holding the main to the boom with these lines.


Your next issue with the boom falling, as I mentioned above, I use three sail stops with one holding the boom for just this purpose.


As for tiller tamers, I've tried a few and like none. But single handing, you certainly need something to secure the tiller if only for a moment. My personal favorite is a cajun tiller tamer (http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/cajun-tiller-tamer.htm), but is murder on your tiller's varnish and for that reason I do use this unless in a jam.

My regular tiller tamer is a Tiller Watch (http://www.tillerwatch.com/). It works reasonably well, easy in install, easy to engage and disengage, and best of all, does not interfere with a tiller cover. It's certainly no tiller pilot, but gets my vote as one of the better tiller tamers.

Any more questions, please don't hesitate.

--Greg

[newt]

Frank-I am little unclear on a few points.
I always heave too when I am shortening the sail alone. I have a line from the top of the mast to the boom as a permanent topping lift. Doesn't need to be adjusted, it just stays there. When I shorten sail I jump up to the mast, put the reef point along the bolt rope in, then pull on a line that is attached to the luff reefing point, through a block and cleat it off on the boom.
i use a topping lift to keep the boom level, that and a line that comes down from the boom that I cleat off. I think thats the same thing you do.
Finally, I use sheet to tiller steering more than the tiller tamer, but both seem to be used around here. If interested, check my tutorial on SailFar.

[Craig Weis]

Com-Pac 19 Reef?
-If a main sail reef is needed I usually try to do that at the dock before going out.

-The alternative is to sail on just the head sail.

-But anyway the boom hangs on it's cable and Q/D from the back stay.

-The 'out haul' is eased.

-The main is hoisted up a bit and jammed with the rope clutch to get some of the sail out of the way.

-Find the eye sewn into the sail and flip onto the pig tail at the front of the boom. That's the new tac.

-Pull the out haul taught and tie it and the new clew of the main sail down.

-My Johnson sail has eyes fore and aft. Every eye has a reefing line going through it and knotted both sides of the sail so the reefing line stays put when the sail is not reefed.

-These reef lines sound a little dull tap on the sail when not in use. I like that. Looks 'salty'.

-When reefing, these lines hang down below the boom I simply tie them around using a square knot. Securing the unused sail.

-Takes about 3 minutes so hence a jiffy reef.

-Pop open the Q/D from the back of the boom. Your sailing.

-Usually I shake out the reef once I'm out there saying, "Not needed".

skip.

[brackish]

Thanks, Gentlemen.

Greg, I went out yesterday and tried the "Cajun" tiller tamer.  OK, except for the tendency to jam at the most inopportune times and it would be hard on the finish.  But I do like the Tiller Watch concept.  Going to add a socket for a forespar telescoping tiller extension anyway, assume that the Tiller Watch will fit the same socket.  Looks like you can just quickly pop it out and let it hang below the tiller when you're not using it?  If so, that's the way to go.

Reversed my spare halyard for an adjustable topping lift then discovered that the shackle pin will not fit through the hole on the boom end.  OK, I want a smaller line for the topping lift anyway.  Maybe a rope to wire with small diameter wire for the topping lift, less obtrusive and wind resistance.  Save the spare for another purpose.

Going to order some stops for the boom gooseneck height control.  Using the downhaul through the tack cringle works but a step that can be eliminated with the stops.

Also pretty much sold on converting to mid boom sheeting.  Winter project.

After a few trips, changed my mind on what headsail to add.  Keep the 115 on the furler for now and add an asymmetrical for light air, broad reaching and running.  Maybe go with a luff foam 135 later on.

[Steve Ullrich]

Here is a tiller lock option to consider:

http://www.cansail.com/

I used to have a tiller tamer on my CP16/3. Problematic, not very strong, but it worked alright for quick trips to the mast or cabin.  Decided to upgrade to the Cansail tiller lock.  I love it.  Works so much better I could hardly believe it.  I highly recommend it...

Thanks, Gentlemen.

Greg, I went out yesterday and tried the "Cajun" tiller tamer.  OK, except for the tendency to jam at the most inopportune times and it would be hard on the finish.  But I do like the Tiller Watch concept.  Going to add a socket for a forespar telescoping tiller extension anyway, assume that the Tiller Watch will fit the same socket.  Looks like you can just quickly pop it out and let it hang below the tiller when you're not using it?  If so, that's the way to go.

Reversed my spare halyard for an adjustable topping lift then discovered that the shackle pin will not fit through the hole on the boom end.  OK, I want a smaller line for the topping lift anyway.  Maybe a rope to wire with small diameter wire for the topping lift, less obtrusive and wind resistance.  Save the spare for another purpose.

Going to order some stops for the boom gooseneck height control.  Using the downhaul through the tack cringle works but a step that can be eliminated with the stops.

Also pretty much sold on converting to mid boom sheeting.  Winter project.

After a few trips, changed my mind on what headsail to add.  Keep the 115 on the furler for now and add an asymmetrical for light air, broad reaching and running.  Maybe go with a luff foam 135 later on.

[Craig Weis]

In respect to the...

http://www.cansail.com/

Don't like it too much. A line-in-the-way, on both sides of the cock pit and at both sides at the same time too boot.
Boat is pretty small and tight to begin with. Why waste space. And you'll have to 'feel' the lock when not in use when your hand is on the tiller. My 2 cents for as worthless as it may be.

skip.

[Bob23]

Hey, mates:
   I use a Davis Tiller Tamer...it's ok but the CanSail looks beefier. I may just buy one for one of this winters re-fit projects.
   My 23 is moored so a way to tie off the tiller is a necessity. The tamer works great but, being a belt-and-suspenders guy, I use another line to tie it off. Shoot, I have back-up lines for the roller fulring, the tiller, keeping the boom from wagging and suporting the rudder and outboard. I like to know that during a big blow, like we had last week (50 mph gusts) my 23 will be there intack when it's all over. It was.
Frank:
   For ease of reefing, I've done the folowing: First off, I have 2 reef points sewn in. There are 2 large grommets in the leech and 2 in the leading edge as well as the 2 smaller grommets in the field of the sail
   I've run lines through the leech grommets down to the boom, through a block and forward to the cleat on the starboard side of the boom. I've also run lines from the 2 leading edge gommets down to the front of the boom. In the field of the sail grommets, short lengths of line are always in place, about 2 feet long.
   Since all my reefing work is done on the starboard side, I always reef on a starboard tack. I'll tighten the jib sheet and loosen the mainsheet so the jib alone is powering the boat. At the mast, after loosening the main halyard and tightening the topping lift a bit, I simply haul in on both reef lines, cleat 'em off, tie off the ties in the field of the sail, and I'm done. I don't heave to but instead reef while moving, once in 25 knt winds. Never had a problem. But I'm still in search for furhter simplicity.
   I wish I'd take the time to learn to post photos here...simpler to see than for me to explain.
Bob23

[Steve Ullrich]

  I wish I'd take the time to learn to post photos here...simpler to see than for me to explain.
Bob23

It is pretty easy Bob:

1. Open a Photobucket account, it is free, link in my signature at the bottom of this post.
2. Upload the pictures that you want to share, also very easy on Photobucket.
3. Keep CPYOA open in one window or on one tab and Photobucket open on another window or tab.
4. Copy either the "direct link" text or the "IMG Code" for the picture you want to share in CPYOA from Photobucket and switch to the CPYOA window/tab.
5. Past that code into your message here. The direct link is the code you copy if you want to attach a picture to your profile. Crop it square first...

That's how I posted this picture:

[brackish]

Ahoy Skip,

With regard to:

"Don't like it too much. A line-in-the-way, on both sides of the cock pit and at both sides at the same time too boot.
Boat is pretty small and tight to begin with. Why waste space. And you'll have to 'feel' the lock when not in use when your hand is on the tiller. My 2 cents for as worthless as it may be."

what are you locking your stick to?  Went through your pics, not clear.  Are you using forespar's sockets that mount in the cockpit coaming or something else?

On my last, much larger boat I just set the stick length and then jammed the ball under the front edge of a cleat that was on the coaming.  Gave me that 15 to 30 seconds or longer I needed depending on the point of sail.  That may be the most simple method to get what I want.

Frank

[Craig Weis]

Frank, the ForeSpar ball sockets are coped into the cockpit coming, both sides.
The adjustable ForeSpar stick is fastened into a metal socket that fits flush and under the tiller's arm.
The action needed to insert the ForeSpar stick into the metal socket is to push a button and insert the stick's end into the socket then release the button on the stick.  Never gave me a problem. Drilled a hole into the bottom of the tiller for the socket and put a little relief into the wood to make the mounting flange and screws flush with the tiller for that 'good feel'. Push button to release the stick from the tiller. Twist the ForeSpar handle to adjust the length and twist oposite to lock into length needed to hold course. I have sailed over two hours without touching the ForeSpar stick or sails.
skip.

[brackish]

Thanks Skip, the forespar telescoping extension is the way I think I'll go for temporary tiller control since I plan to install the tiller socket anyway.  Simple is better.  Going to see if I can avoid the coaming sockets as I did with my last boat, but if necessary will put those in also.

David the autohelm is great, had it with my last two boats and will with this one.  Depending on the point of sail liked it a lot.  Beam reach with quartering seas forward outstanding.  Broad reach or run with following sea, an experienced helmsman can steer a much tighter and more comfortable track because of the natural "feel" anticipating the lifting sea.  However on those long cruises when you run out of enthusiastic helmsmen (pretty quick if you're single handling or only have the Admiral aboard), can't be beat.

However, I'm also looking for that short time control to trim a sail, look at a chart, get a beer, turn on lights, clear a line etc., without having to hook it up.  Also had a tiller extension with my last two boats and used it every time I went out.  Increases helmsman's comfort significantly.  I highly recommend.

Frank