IDARUDDER

[nies]

AFTER READING ALL THE POST ABOUT THE IDARUDDER, I DECIDED I WANTED ONE, BUT DIDNT WANT TO SPEND $800 ON A NEW RUDDER. THE POSTINGS SAID THAT YOU COULDNT BUY JUST THE LOWER (BLADE) ANYMORE. DECIDED TO BUILD MY OWN, AFTER GETTING THE DIM. FOR A NACA 0014 ,I MADE A PATTERN . THIS LOOKED LIKE IT MIGHT BE MORE THAN I WANTED TO FOOL WITH IF I DIDNT HAVE TO. CALLED JOEL AT IDARUDDER TO SEE IF I COULD GET THEM TO  MAKE ONE FOR ME ON SPECIAL ORDER. GUESS WHAT, THEY ARE MAKING THE "BLADE" AGAIN FOR $290. I PURCHASED IT. AFTER SAILING MY CP16 (1978) FOR 31 YEARS WITH A HEAVY HELM (NOT JUST A WEATHER HELM) , I HAD A HARD TIME FEELING THE HELM AND NOT A HAPPY SAILOR WAS I . NOT ONE TO GIVE UP AND TWO MORE OUTINGS I WOULDNT TRADE IT FOR ANYTHING!!!!!!!!! FOR THOSE OF YOU OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER CARS WITHOUT POWER STEERING IT IS THE SAME TRANSITION, OVER STEER AND MUSCLING THE WHEEL. ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT YOU NEED TO ATTACH A SHOCK CORD TO THE BLADE TO KEEP IT FROM FLOATING UP ..............NIES

[Craig Weis]

nies, would you please type without capital letters as it becomes very difficult to discern the individual letters for me. Thank you skip. P.S. The best thing I hung on my boat was the foiled rudder.

***nies, recieved your privite message about capital letters a few days ago. No sweat. No problem. Use caps.***
skip.

[Bob23]

Nies:
   Yeah, we remember cars without power steering. But my old VW's didn't need it.
   Thanks for the IdaRudder input. I'll call 'em. I also was not willing to shell out big bucks for the whole shebang as I only wanted the blade, like you. I'm glad they are changing thier tactics...maybe they recieved lots of calls/complaints.
   Bob23

[nies]

BOB23, MY OLD VW DIDNT NEED POWER STEERING EITHER, BUT SURE NEEDED A HEATER/DEFROSTER. REMEMBER DRIVING WITH A WINDOW SCRAPER TO GET FROST OFF INSIDE WINDOW, LOVED THAT CAR. A VW IN THE UPPER MIDWEST DURING WINTER WAS A CHALLENGE. OFF SUBJECT!!!!!! THERE ARE MEN IN BUSINESS AND THEN THERE ARE BUSINESS MEN, AND JOEL IS A BUSINESS MAN!!!!!!!............NIES

[nies]

                                SKIP, SORRY, BUT FOR REASONS I CARE NOT TO SHARE,CAPS ARE NESSCARY FOR ME, I WILL HAVE MY WIFE ANSWER ANY POST I THINK YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN.....................NIES

nies, would you please type without capital letters as it becomes very difficult to discern the individual letters for me. Thank you skip. P.S. The best thing I hung on my boat was the foiled rudder.

[newt]

So Bob, how much is a 23 rudder only? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Bob23]

Don't know..haven't called 'em yet. I'd still like to make my own this winter and incorporate a downhaul.
Nies: Yeah, I too carried an interior ice scraper in my old VW's. But never needed a snow shovel!
Bob23...reminiscing

[ronfmflorida]

http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php?osCsid=1d9d416a956d8fe3f01896669c4c9796

Com-Pac 16 High Performance Foiled Replacement Rudder Blade $295.00

High performance lower foiled rudder blade for your CP16. This easy, drop-in replacement rudder blade, gives instant improvement in steering performance, with much better tacking, reduced weather helm, better pointing ability, and less tiller effort. Your Com-Pac will seem like a different boat with this balanced rudder that reduces helm effort. The high lift to low drag foil helps your boat to weather and increases speed off the wind. Docking and tacking are easier and crisper, giving you more control of your boat during low-speed maneuvers. Order today and find out why this rudder upgrade is one of our top two best-selling rudders. No modifications to your boat required, just five minutes to install and you will begin experiencing a higher performance rudder. A lifetime warranty is extended to the original boat owner.

[Craig Weis]

"Com-Pac 23 High Performance Foiled Replacement Rudder Blade buy now $395."
From the web page. Rudder blade only.
Entire kick-up unit, -->"Com-Pac 23 Unifoil Kick Up Rudder Assembly buy now $869."

B.O.A.T. Break out another thousand.
skip.

[Steve Ullrich]

Couldn't resist.  Bought the replacement rudder this morning.  I can hardly wait for it to get here.  I've never been happy with my 16's ability to point... I suppose this is typical but my current angle to weather seems to be roughly 70 degrees, 140 inclusive.  That makes it very difficult to work to weather, especially in light air on narrow lakes. The reviews I've read lead me to believe I can expect to be able to sail closer to 45 degrees to weather, 90 degrees inclusive, and that is huge.  I'll let you know how it goes after I have a chance to give it a whirl.

http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php?osCsid=1d9d416a956d8fe3f01896669c4c9796

Com-Pac 16 High Performance Foiled Replacement Rudder Blade $295.00

High performance lower foiled rudder blade for your CP16. This easy, drop-in replacement rudder blade, gives instant improvement in steering performance, with much better tacking, reduced weather helm, better pointing ability, and less tiller effort. Your Com-Pac will seem like a different boat with this balanced rudder that reduces helm effort. The high lift to low drag foil helps your boat to weather and increases speed off the wind. Docking and tacking are easier and crisper, giving you more control of your boat during low-speed maneuvers. Order today and find out why this rudder upgrade is one of our top two best-selling rudders. No modifications to your boat required, just five minutes to install and you will begin experiencing a higher performance rudder. A lifetime warranty is extended to the original boat owner.

[Potcake boy]

Steve - it's not my intent to pee on someone's parade but you may be disappointed if you are looking for higher pointing with a different rudder.  Not to say that the foiled rudder isn't a terrific asset to your performance, as I put one on my 19 before I even sailed her for the first time.  The primary benefit of the rudder upgrade is that it does a much better job of maintaining laminar flow and therefore doesn't stall as easily as a flat blade.  In performance terms that means you retain better control of the steering in all situations - most notably heavy weather helm - and the response is much better.  The foil will give you a speck better speed, but on our boats I don't consider that to be a major bonus.

How are your sails?  Stretched out sails are the main reason for diminished windward performance.  A lot of folks think that sails are in good condition if they don't have loose seams or tears and are clean.  Well that "good condition" is good only if your not concerned about performance.  Dacron sails stretch and loose their shape - so you loose he ability to properly shape for good windward performance.  That's why performance oriented sailors have switched to laminates for sails.  Of course I don't think our boats justify the expense of laminates, good Dacron sails can be had at a reasonable price.

Just be careful with your new rudder, I believe they are polyethylene and are on the soft side so they will be easily cut, as with a outboard prop.

Ron

[Steve Ullrich]

Hi Potcake - I agree with you about the importance of good sail shape.  The flatter the better when close hauled.  I have a new main and jib on order from National Sail Supply. They should arrive this week. I'm sure they will help and I know they will be beautiful.  I realize my current sails are blown and a significant part of the problem. I'm not too concerned about speed.  I bought my 16 because I value stability and safety over speed.  I didn't want a small boat that I'd find myself trying to turn over in cold water.  I generally sail alone and for fun and really don't care how long it takes to get across the lake and back.  On the other hand: I've read a lot of reviews related to improved pointing ability on 16's with a foil rudder. I do understand that the higher we point the slower we go, not a big concern, I'd just like to be able to make fewer tacks getting back to the ramp if it happens to be to weather. Narrow lakes, like Prior Lake where I have been sailing once a week, are frustrating when the wind is rolling straight down the lake.  I'd like to be able to claw my way up the lake if I feel like it... If the foil makes a difference I'll post it.  Actually, if it doesn't make a differenct I'll post that too. Thanks for the feedback.

Steve - it's not my intent to pee on someone's parade but you may be disappointed if you are looking for higher pointing with a different rudder.  Not to say that the foiled rudder isn't a terrific asset to your performance, as I put one on my 19 before I even sailed her for the first time.  The primary benefit of the rudder upgrade is that it does a much better job of maintaining laminar flow and therefore doesn't stall as easily as a flat blade.  In performance terms that means you retain better control of the steering in all situations - most notably heavy weather helm - and the response is much better.  The foil will give you a speck better speed, but on our boats I don't consider that to be a major bonus.

How are your sails?  Stretched out sails are the main reason for diminished windward performance.  A lot of folks think that sails are in good condition if they don't have loose seams or tears and are clean.  Well that "good condition" is good only if your not concerned about performance.  Dacron sails stretch and loose their shape - so you loose he ability to properly shape for good windward performance.  That's why performance oriented sailors have switched to laminates for sails.  Of course I don't think our boats justify the expense of laminates, good Dacron sails can be had at a reasonable price.

Just be careful with your new rudder, I believe they are polyethylene and are on the soft side so they will be easily cut, as with a outboard prop.

Ron

[Potcake boy]

Steve - I think that with new sails and that new rudder you will see a whole new personality in your 16.  One rule of thumb used for sailing to windward is to always keep your speed maximized.  If the wind is light, or very heavy and your in a choppy sea, it's best to fall off a few degrees to keep your speed up.  The keels on our boats don't function very well at lower speeds and you could be loosing a lot of ground to leeway.  Here is an interesting little test if you have a GPS available: in light air, sheet in hard and note your heading according to the GPS, and compared to your boat compass.  Next fall off 5-10 degrees and re trim then compare the two headings again.  The differences should be less and that is a measure of how much you loose to leeway by pinching.  You should also see a better speed in the latter case.  Keeping the speed up on our boats is even more important sailing to windward than deep keel boats.  It would have added production cost, but I would have liked to have had a choice of keels, which would require they be external and lead ( iron isn't the best choice for a keel).  There were a few centerboard/keel versions of the 19 but I've never had the opportunity to sail one for a comparison. With all that being said, and considering the overall design criteria, it's probably true that these little beauties are optimized as built - and I stick with what I've said many times before - if the performance is not up to one's requirements, then get a different design.  My 19 will take me a lot of places that I'd be reluctant to attempt in many other 19' designs.

Ron