Interior seem normal to you?

[newtwo]

Hey All -
Cleaning up the new (1986) CP19.  Planned on painting the exposed areas of hull interior, some wood finishing and so on.  One thing of course led to another.  Anyway, one of the "others" was removing the carpet hull liner.  A lot of loose/peeling paint under so figured it might as well go rather than simply covering with a new hull liner.  This has turned into a real clock eater.  I got to thinking it seems like rather excessive peeling/flaking/failure of some sort, even considering the circumstances/environment.  I've gotten it prepped pretty well at this point imho and plan to go ahead with a Kilz Primer and start putting the boat back together again.

Anyway -- I'm just wondering if what I'm seeing is similar to what others have seen.

http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv182/rickbucket/CYOForum/

Thanks in advance for any input.

[brackish]

I guess I'm surprised there is paint under that fabric.  There would be no reason to paint those areas that I can tell.  What you may be seeing is adhesive residue rather than paint.  And that non-woven material will turn black if it gets and stays wet.

My Columbia 8.7 had a headliner and side panels of a foam backed, perforated vinyl material adhesivly attached.  Over time the foam backing deteriorated to the point places sagged and it all had to come out.  There was no paint, only the last GRP layer. 

After scraping the old foam off, I decided to go back with a non-woven fabric and, after looking at expensive, by the yard, retail options, finally bought a whole roll directly from a mill somewhere in New England.  Ironically, it is the very same fabric that Com-Pac (and a half dozen or so other boat manufacturers)  is using today.  Attached it with the most aggressive 3M spray adhesive, maybe 90 IIRC.  Over the sixteen I years owned that boat, did that job twice, gave the new owner enough fabric to do it once, and still have enough of the fabric to do my Com-Pac a several times as it becomes necessary.  Difference in price (mid 80's when I bought it) was about ten bucks a yard retail and two bucks a yard wholesale. 

When you're done, you might look at vent options to keep it dry in there. 

Good luck with your project.

Frank

[HideAway]

I think what you may be scrapping off is gel coat and there is no doubt you are exposing the fiber glass hull.   If you paint over it the islands will show since paint is thinner than gel coat.   

Our boat has the same problem but no carpet or cloth.  Most of the gel coat was either gone or never put on the sides then painted white.  I was able to wipe on a more pleasing color using house paint treated prevent mold.  It gave a nice weave pattern look to the sides.  Our problem is the cabin top which has deep flaking of the gel coat instead of the nice "ceiling" panels the new boats have.   I have no solution yet for that - we just put up with it.

There is absolutely no way I'd put any kind of carpet or cloth in our boat with the high humidity and heat we have here in Florida! 

[fafnir]

Yep,  that is exactly what I saw in my Compac 16 when I bought it.  No it isn't gel coat because of the way the hull is made the gel coat is only on one side and is smooth (ie  the outside)  The manufacture just paints the inside of the boat.  My boat was pealing on the inside,  a random orbital sander and 60 grit took the stuff off in a hurry, I didn't take all of it off as I would have been removing too much fiberglass, as you can see it is not a smooth surface but has the weave of the fiberglass as texture.  After removing what I could with the sander I followed with 2 good coats of primer as it seems to adhere better then just paint would, followed by a coat of quality exterior house paint.  I thought it looked good and held up well while I owned the boat.  Pics can be seen here: http://www.fafnirnet.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=97

[ARod]

Same as fafnir here.  We just bought our 16 a couple months ago, and the paint was peeling like crazy in the cabin.  My wife and I scraped off most of the loose paint, and intend to do exactly what you did--apply a primer and exterior house paint (as recommended in Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual).  We will, however, save that project for cooler weekends.

[romei]

Mine too was peeling really bad when I bought it.  Wire brush, sand paper and I used a mold resistant bathroom paint.  I am very pleased with the result.

[Steve Ullrich]

I hadn't thougth of bathroom paint.  Mold resistant is a plus.  Great idea, thanks for sharing.

Mine too was peeling really bad when I bought it.  Wire brush, sand paper and I used a mold resistant bathroom paint.  I am very pleased with the result.

[newtwo]

Just getting back to say thanks for the input/responses.  Was glad to hear that what I saw after hull liner removal was typical.  Makes sense after all those years I suppose.

In case anyone is thinking of painting their interior thought I would also add that I think the result is surprisingly excellent.  Mine is now primed a light gray with tinted Kilz Premium, no finish coat yet.  Have a couple leaks I want to fix first, like I've ever owned a boat with no leaks.  Anyway, Hutchins recommends an exterior latex house paint for a final coat.  I like the mildew resistant idea so may try adding some off the shelf algacide.  Because the painted interior looks as good as it does I may not replace the fabric hull liner at all.  If I do it may be more for sound deadening than appearance, especially since I'm already amazed at how fantastic the 22 year old refinished teak looks.  This is a job that at this point I think returns way more than the effort.

So thanks again.   Happy Sailing!

[erags]

Fafnir

was looking at your photos and I saw that you have PVC piping around your shrouds. I'm new at sailing and just learning on my own, so I was wanting to know why you have them and do i need them? Have My CP out of the water as of now and starting to work on the inside also.  Also should the Jib sheets go inside of the shrouds or outside?

[HideAway]

I don't know what they put on our cabin roof but it is much thicker than paint and comes off in chunks down to the weave.   I believe they may have experimented with gel coat but ended up with a heavy crackled finish on some areas.  You can buy gel coat to fill cracks and such.  It is available in quarts and probably could be rolled on.  I've thought of gluing up formica but the idea of all the fumes and the large pieces required is not appealing.  Scraping and painting is probably the best.

As to your standing rigging.  HideAway - a 23 had those plastic tubes and the shrouds were covered in tight fitting plastic to prevent wear on the jib.  However a professional rigger told me to get rid of them because  our salt water environment.

The sheets on our standard 110 jib and 150 genny always run outside the standing rigging but the storm jib runs inside.    Matt

[erags]

Thank You Matt,

I was putting on the outside, but then I started to question myself.

Ed

[Craig Weis]

Surface prep is the single most important and most time consumming step that must be done BEFORE any coating is applied.

Having tried this product [Kilz Premium] I was not happy. Never laid down nor flowed out to smooth the brush marks away. Dried way too fast, nearly as fast as it left the brush.  

Hey if the surface grows something, it gets washed, not covered up.
What ever attaches to the non-Kilz surface is still floating around in the boat. I'd rather just get rid of what's floating around.

Never really chemically bonds to the prep ed surface underneath but just lays on top, waiting to soon peel and drop away.

Maybe I had a bad batch, bad day, bad brush, bad humidity, bad technique, bad surface, bad something...

I would never use it [Kliz] on steel or any ferrous metals.
As we all know, an iron phosphate [or zinc phosphate] wash and copious rinse leaves a substrate that has a chemically bonded iron phosphate coating on it at about 30 to 40 mg/sq ft. [130 to 150 mg/sq ft zinc], hence zinc holds more paint.

"So paint does not stick to steel. Phosphate sticks to steel and paint sticks to phosphate." [Trailers?]

People like what they like. I preferr an alkaline enamel oil base. I don't care for water base anything 'cept a pretreatment on a ferrous substrate. These phosphates work because they dissolve a portion of the iron substrate and redeposit back onto the substrate in the form of a chemically bond iron or zinc phosphoric crystal offering more surface area for paint. Mil coating about 1/2 mil when dry, 1-1/2 mil wet.

I don't deal with salt but removing the tubes makes sense to me. Use a fresh water rinse keep the rigging salt-less and dry. Sailing ships of old had tared lines.
skip.

[newtwo]

On standing rigging/shroud covers -- Don't Do It! -- I just bought this boat and hadn't gotten around to removing them.  I do think they look good but what they do best is trap corrosive elements.

My opinion on jib sheet run is not to get locked into any one idea.  Sail size, wind angle, and so on can call for different sheeting arrangements.  The headsail is a beautiful thing when it sets properly, as a new sailor you're bound to have one of these aha moments when you see it fill and feel it pull.  In general the closer to the wind you sail the closer you will probably want to sheet in the headsail.

Fafnir

was looking at your photos and I saw that you have PVC piping around your shrouds. I'm new at sailing and just learning on my own, so I was wanting to know why you have them and do i need them? Have My CP out of the water as of now and starting to work on the inside also.  Also should the Jib sheets go inside of the shrouds or outside?

[newtwo]

In case anyone needs a latex primer, I just want to toss out the fact that my Kilz Premium experience went fairly well.  Painting inside only, but in Southwest Florida with no shade over so surfaces still plenty warm.  Paint did dry fairly fast so I just tried to paint faster, biggest problem was not dripping sweat into work area.  I agree that I don't see a super smooth sprayed on "Yacht Finish" surface where I've painted, and maybe not as smooth as an enamel would  have been.  Also because I was going over a fairly rough surface to begin with super smooth wasn't required.  I just hope I don't experience the peel and drop you mention.  Will update here if I do.

Skip - As a side note - I think you wrote of working at Palmer Johnson Sturgeon Bay.  I was with them in Thunderbolt about 15 years ago working on the transient dock for a while.  Thinking about the beautiful stuff that went through there and mentioning it in the same box with brushed on latex seems almost illegal.  What an operation that was.  Anyway, Happy Sailing!

Surface prep is the single most important and most time consumming step that must be done BEFORE any coating is applied.

Having tried this product [Kilz Premium] I was not happy. Never laid down nor flowed out to smooth the brush marks away. Dried way too fast, nearly as fast as it left the brush.  

Hey if the surface grows something, it gets washed, not covered up.
What ever attaches to the non-Kilz surface is still floating around in the boat. I'd rather just get rid of what's floating around.

Never really chemically bonds to the prep ed surface underneath but just lays on top, waiting to soon peel and drop away.

Maybe I had a bad batch, bad day, bad brush, bad humidity, bad technique, bad surface, bad something...

I would never use it [Kliz] on steel or any ferrous metals.
As we all know, an iron phosphate [or zinc phosphate] wash and copious rinse leaves a substrate that has a chemically bonded iron phosphate coating on it at about 30 to 40 mg/sq ft. [130 to 150 mg/sq ft zinc], hence zinc holds more paint.

"So paint does not stick to steel. Phosphate sticks to steel and paint sticks to phosphate." [Trailers?]

People like what they like. I preferr an alkaline enamel oil base. I don't care for water base anything 'cept a pretreatment on a ferrous substrate. These phosphates work because they dissolve a portion of the iron substrate and redeposit back onto the substrate in the form of a chemically bond iron or zinc phosphoric crystal offering more surface area for paint. Mil coating about 1/2 mil when dry, 1-1/2 mil wet.

I don't deal with salt but removing the tubes makes sense to me. Use a fresh water rinse keep the rigging salt-less and dry. Sailing ships of old had tared lines.
skip.

[newtwo]

Hello fellow Florida sailor.  We must have had the same "gunk" applied to our hull interiors.  Almost seems like a heavy concrete block waterproofer or something.  Funky stuff, maybe composition broke down over the years?  I stopped short of removing all of mine, seemed like it would take forever so stuck to what would hand sand, power sand, and scrape off without attacking the glass.  I'm pretty satisfied with the newly painted surface look also, not sure if I will bother covering it.  Keep spreading the word to remove that pastic covering from rigging - everybody should know.  Happy Sailing!   

I don't know what they put on our cabin roof but it is much thicker than paint and comes off in chunks down to the weave.   I believe they may have experimented with gel coat but ended up with a heavy crackled finish on some areas.  You can buy gel coat to fill cracks and such.  It is available in quarts and probably could be rolled on.  I've thought of gluing up formica but the idea of all the fumes and the large pieces required is not appealing.  Scraping and painting is probably the best.

As to your standing rigging.  HideAway - a 23 had those plastic tubes and the shrouds were covered in tight fitting plastic to prevent wear on the jib.  However a professional rigger told me to get rid of them because  our salt water environment.

The sheets on our standard 110 jib and 150 genny always run outside the standing rigging but the storm jib runs inside.    Matt