The CP-27 production run and model changes

[Nicolina]

Under another topic, Gary and others recently asked about the number of 27 hulls built so far. I have also been wondering about the changes to the model throughout its production run.

For a start, there are C-P 27 models designated as I, II, and III as well as 2 and 3. I have yet to see a 27 I, which was apparently only produced in 1985.

The following changes were made during the production run so far, but not necessarily as the model designations changed:

1. Early models had six ports, newer ones have eight.

2. More recently, ports changed from bronze to stainless (same change for deck hardware).

3. I have seen pictures of oblong as well as circular ports on earlier models, but cannot identify them with any specific year.

4. Early models do not have stern rail seats, recent ones do.

5. The engine was upgraded in the early 1990s.

6. Vinylester resins were used from about 1994 onwards.

7. The engine cover (access door) in the cabin changed at some point.

8. The location of the mainsheet traveler was moved from the bridge deck to the cabin roof at some point.

9. Early models have a half bulkhead, newer ones have a full bulkhead with door (was the change made for structural or cosmetic reasons?).

I am sure there were numerous other changes. It is not clear to me why some of these changes were made, when they were made, or what most boats out there look like (i.e., how many of each variety were made).

Is there any view what year is the most desirable?

Are there any hugely popular options?

I hope you wise old Compac guys can shed some light on these issues ....

Jens

[Gary]

Hi Folks:

I've embedded my response's/answers following:

Under another topic, Gary and others recently asked about the number of 27 hulls built so far. I have also been wondering about the changes to the model throughout its production run.    I don't know.

For a start, there are C-P 27 models designated as I, II, and III as well as 2 and 3. I have yet to see a 27 I, which was apparently only produced in 1985.
(My 1992 Model is listed as a Com-Pac 27/II )

The following changes were made during the production run so far, but not necessarily as the model designations changed:

1. Early models had six ports, newer ones have eight.  (Mine has 8 ports, six large and 2 smaller in the forward v-berth area.)

2. More recently, ports changed from bronze to stainless (same change for deck hardware).  ( 8 bronze ports )

3. I have seen pictures of oblong as well as circular ports on earlier models, but cannot identify them with any specific year.  (All mine are oblong )

4. Early models do not have stern rail seats, recent ones do. (No seats on the rear pulpit, if that's what is being referred to.)

5. The engine was upgraded in the early 1990s.   ( 12 HP Westerbekke, Model 12B-Two with a Hurth transmission))

6. Vinylester resins were used from about 1994 onwards.   (No idea, but would really like to know as the vinyester's are better.)

7. The engine cover (access door) in the cabin changed at some point.  (Mine is thru/under/behind the companionway ladder.  Hinged at top, swings up and attaches to the overhead for access.)

8. The location of the mainsheet traveler was moved from the bridge deck to the cabin roof at some point. (Ours is on the cabin top, immediately forward of the sliding hatch cover.)

9. Early models have a half bulkhead, newer ones have a full bulkhead with door (was the change made for structural or cosmetic reasons?).  (Assuming we're talking about the bulkhead by the mast compression post ours is a half.)

I am sure there were numerous other changes. It is not clear to me why some of these changes were made, when they were made, or what most boats out there look like (i.e., how many of each variety were made).

Is there any view what year is the most desirable?

Are there any hugely popular options?

I hope you wise old Compac guys can shed some light on these issues ....

Jens

I wish we had bronze sea cocks instead of the Marlon (sp?).  Will change these over to bronze in the future, hate plastic thru hulls.  Just my fetish.    
At least they're sea cocks.   Seen some vessels (not COM-PAC's)  with gate valves, were Canadian built.  Have no idea why builders would put such junk on  or whether it's even legal to do so, certainly not ethical, moral.

[Nicolina]

Thanks, Gary.

I do share your views on thru-hulls. However, Marelon is apparently "acceptable" and may even be easier in maintenance. Here's an excerpt from BoatUS:


Defining a Proper Seacock

All thru-hulls below or near the waterline must have a valve that can be closed in an emergency or when the boat will be left unattended for more than a few days. Traditional bronze seacocks are acceptable, but gate valves and many plastic thru-hulls should not be used at thru-hulls below the waterline.

Gate valves have internal parts that deteriorate and snap off. And unlike a seacock, which has a handle that is clearly open or closed ("positive action"), a gate valve's wheel may or may not be closed. Even turning the wheel will not confirm that the valve is closed. The internal mechanism could have become jammed open by debris, for example, but feel as though it had been closed.

Plastic seacocks are brittle and can be easily broken by an errant foot or a stowed anchor. The exception is Marelon thru-hulls, which are made of glass-reinforced plastic and are acceptable for thru-hull installations below the waterline. Marelon seacocks have been tested (most sizes) and approved by Underwriters Laboratories. While probably not as prone to mechanical freezing as their bronze counterparts, Marelon seacocks must also be taken apart, inspected, and lubricated periodically.

Finally, some boat builders have recently been installing ball-type bronze seacocks that use a Teflon-coated ball (either plastic or stainless steel) instead of traditional tapered drums. These newer valves are acceptable, especially if they have a flanged base and are mounted on a backing block. The ball valves are not inclined to mechanical freezing, but the models that can be taken apart (some can't) should be inspected occasionally to make sure they haven't become clogged by debris.

[txsurbrook]

Does anyone have a  count on howmany CP27's have been produced?

[jimyoung]

Putting in my two cents worth on Marelon thru hull valves.... In '88 when I bought Miss B. she was already two years old and at the time I was sure I would have to replace the "cheap pieces of junk plastic thru hull fittings" and replace them with proper bronze valves within a year or two if I didn't break them first.

That was twenty-two years ago and those damn cheap plastic valves have never frozen up, never stress-cracked, never leaked a drop when shut off, never broken when I've stubbed my toe on them, and this is a boat that stays in the water year around.

So bottom line is.... If they ever do go bad I will still probably replace them with bronze, but I sure don't have any thing bad to say about them.

[newt]

I had a Catalina 27 with gate valves on it. Not sure if they were original or not...

[Nicolina]

Txsurbrook: i understand that the hull numbers are now in the high 200s - so not quite 300 boats sold so far (since 1986). I hope people keep buying them!

[botelerr]

So while on the 27 subject ... I'm back considering a 1989,, St Louis river based , in the water 12 months.. Is there a check list of "what to look for" on the 27 ? I know the owner, but a full survey does make sense too. Not sure the last time it was out and checked for blisters etc..Rob

[Allure2sail]

Hi:
Curious if anyone has installed a windlass on a 27. I purchased a Maxwell 500 on sale recently and and I am planning on the install within the next month. Any input would be appreciated. Anyone other ComPac people out there in New England? I did see one in Padinarim Harbor (Darthmouth, MA) last year.
Bruce

[bmiller]

What's your plan for power? A battery up front or heavy gauge wire led to the bow? Either way you'll need a lot of amps up there.
You might want to start a thread on this subject by itself also.

[jimyoung]

Bruce


Just after installing a windlass on Miss B.  Turned out to be a really neat addition. Just be sure and run large enough wire to handle up to a 50 amp load.  I had the interior completely stripped out at the time so the wiring wasn't bad. It is nice in the mornings being able to go forward with a cup of coffee in my hand, press the little "Up" button with my toe and watch the anchor neatly snuggle into it's place




Capt'n Jim

[Nicolina]

Botelerr:

There are no real secrets with the CP-27; they seem to age well. Before I bought mine, I looked at a few and none seemed to have any big issues. One weak spot is the rudder; older rudders may deliminate from absorbing moisture. Rudders can easily be replaced but that will costs a bit. Check for blisters, particular if the boat is in fresh water year-round. If tanks, hoses, standing rigging etc are original, they will require replacing sooner than later. With the 89 model you get the small 10 hp Universal engine; many people find them underpowered (I don't, not yet). Minor leaks around deck hardware and ports seems to affect many older boats, but these are easily fixed. I recommend getting a survey but also if you like the condition of the boat - I find, with the Compac you get pretty much what you see, and the boat is reasonably easy to work on.

Feel free to email me directly if you have further questions. Good Luck!

[Allure2sail]

Hi:
Yes, I had planned on putting another group 27 battery in a plastic battery box up front to power the windlass. I have two group 27's, installed in the battery area. Only way I could get two group 27's in there was to eliminate the plastic battery boxes and carefully trim off the the lift handles with a hack saw blade, clean it up with a file and it looks fine. When it comes time to remove the battery's for the winter I have a lift strap I purchased from an auto parts store that goes onto the two posts and you lift it up with that, works fine. I will also put in a battery switch to isolate the windlass battery if need be. Any ideas or input would be appreciated....
Bruce
S/V Allure
Would love to post a picture of Allure (added two more ports per side) but seems out of my computer skill level. Can anyone do this for me? Looks cool!!! Ports came from my parts boat.