Honda 2HP

[kickingbug1]

    hang on to your hats ---i run an old cruise and carry air cooled 2.7 hp on my 16. the thing is light ( i leave it on the mount all the time with no problems. it starts on the first and second pull and has a neutral. until it quits it will do the trick, the honda sounds like my furture replacement being aircooled and light.

[Rick Klages]

The Tohatsu is in very good condition,  it like my boat was lovingly maintained by the prior owner.  Having owned both engines I just strongly prefer the Honda.

[Smitty]

Currently running an old Sea King 3.5 (Clinton) on my 16 that was given to me.  The thing looks like new and starts on the first or second pull, quiet for a two stroke, air cooled, light,  with very little smoke and does a good job pushing the 16 around.  I only run it at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle.  My only complaint, no neutral or reverse, but I guess you can't look a gift horse.....If it quit today I would go for the Honda.

My 2 cents
Smitty

[Shawn]

"   I don't own a Honda 2 but I understood that the lower unit was water cooled or something like that."

The older version of the Honda had basically water cooled exhaust so it had an impeller. That version is supposed to be quieter then the totally air cooled version.

Shawn

[romei]

I'll give my 2 cents I guess.  I have a Johnson 4 and would not run anything smaller.  My main body of water has current and I need some horses going upstream when there's no wind.  Plus, many times I'll motor down to the big water before I raise my sails.  The less time I spend motoring means the more time I can spend sailing.

Also, I'd rather have the extra horses there if I really needed them than to not have them if I really needed them to avoid a collision, a sea wall, or a nasty tide or current.

[Rick Klages]

I'll give my 2 cents I guess.  I have a Johnson 4 and would not run anything smaller.  My main body of water has current and I need some horses going upstream when there's no wind.  Plus, many times I'll motor down to the big water before I raise my sails.  The less time I spend motoring means the more time I can spend sailing.

Also, I'd rather have the extra horses there if I really needed them than to not have them if I really needed them to avoid a collision, a sea wall, or a nasty tide or current.

Hull speed is still five knots, two or twenty horse power.

[Shawn]

"That version is supposed to be quieter then the totally air cooled version."

My boat is docked in a very busy harbor with lots of dinghy traffic. A dinghy went by with an engine that was sort of loud and sounded a bit different then most of the rest of the engines I hear. So I turned around to check it out and it was the air cooled Honda. I have the Suzuki 2.5 and I think it is considerably quieter at the same engine speed, my Tohatsu 6hp probably is too but that probably isn't a fair comparison as its exhaust is so much deeper in the water being a 25" shaft.

On the flip side the air cooled 2 strokes I have owned (Gamefisher 1.25hp and 1.75hp and a Cruise 'n Carry) are much louder.

Shawn   

[Shawn]

"Hull speed is still five knots, two or twenty horse power."

Very true, if a engine can get you to hull speed then more horses won't help fight a tide.

What more power will help fight is windage.

This guy lost his 15' Potter:

http://www.tetra-sail.com/lossstory.htm

and one of the factors, among many others, was he couldn't make any progress to wind with his 2hp Honda.

Shawn

[romei]

Where I sail my 4hp won't give me hull speed against the current when the current is swift.  If the wind is in my face it's even worse.

[Bob23]

   Of course I can't help but throw in 2 more of my cents.
   It's my understanding that 2 stroke outboards like to be run at about 3/4 throttle. I'm sure this is just a general assumption around the fact that they can foul plugs at too low a speed. That being said, my Nissan 8 hp on my 1985 23/2 seems to like at about 1/3 to  1/2 throttle. Any more than that and she seems to actually move slower.
   Nonetheless. Having that extra hp saved the boat at least once. I won't go into the details but due to pilot error, I found myself heading for a wooden dock due to a snagged mainsheet and jib sheet at the same time. Having the motor ready, able, and willing to start and provide 8 ponies at a moments notice saved the day (not to mention the captains butt.)
   I regularly need to motor into a 15-20 knot headwind and oncoming tide. Knowing that the motor doesn't have to run at full throttle to overcome both, gives me a bit of peace of mind that it will continue to run thusly for long time.
Bob23 in NJ...again just my 2 cents- or 8 hp- whichever you prefer.

[Rick Klages]

Where I sail my 4hp won't give me hull speed against the current when the current is swift.  If the wind is in my face it's even worse.

If the tide is flowing faster than hull speed you will be going backwards regardless of horsepower. You are already at hull speed (5 Kts). If you are already moving at hull speed when fighting  "windage" additional horsepower has no benefit.  Displacement hulls as a rule are limited to design (hull) speed. 

[Rick Klages]

"Hull speed is still five knots, two or twenty horse power."

Very true, if a engine can get you to hull speed then more horses won't help fight a tide.

What more power will help fight is windage.

This guy lost his 15' Potter:

http://www.tetra-sail.com/lossstory.htm

and one of the factors, among many others, was he couldn't make any progress to wind with his 2 hp Honda.

"I needed to work about 100 yards upwind and then pass windward of a PVC marker. There was very little water there. My sounder was alternating between 2 and 3 feet. Bobby had passed me by that time and I could tell that his boat was now badly aground in the shallows.  I only had a little centerboard down and I just uncleated a downhaul to save the rudder. I started the outboard to see if it would help me. I'd been sailing under a double-reefed main and tiny furled jib. Now, I had big winds on the nose and no water under the boat. I began trying to make tacks, but found it impossible to work to wind. I desperately needed centerboard and rudder, but didn't have depth for them. I was burning up the motor trying to help tack the boat and smelled it as it ran hot. I'd jibe around then pull off a lucky tack every now and then, but just couldn't make any ground.  The outboard was just roaring, but seemed to do little good against the wind."

The shallow water prevented him from using his centerboard and rudder!  It's a sailboat, the wind is blowing so sail! But he was operating in a puddle! And you can not sail to windward without counteracting the force of the wind . Motor tacking (what is that)?  The problem here is he was unable steer or sail due to not having enough centerboard and rudder in the water.  All his engine was doing was adding to leeway in vector sum with the wind.  If he had steerage this likely would have ended differently.  Don't carry any sail if you cant put your centerboard down.  Don't expect to steer even with your outboard if your centerboard is not at least one third  to one half in the water. His outcome would have been the same if he had a 4hp or even a 10 hp engine.  he should have been looking for a place to drop his ground tackle and all sail to wait it out. Potter 15 has a hull speed of about 4.5 Kts.   This tale is more about conditions and less about the merits of particular boats and engines.

[Shawn]

Where I sail my 4hp won't give me hull speed against the current when the current is swift.

Are you measuring water speed or speed over ground? If you are using a GPS you are measuring speed over ground which is not.

Say your hull speed (water speed) is 6 knots. In no tide you go hull speed, your water speed is 6 knots and your GPS will also show 6 knots.

Now head into a 3 knot current. Your water speed is still 6 knots, but your GPS is only going to read 3 knots. You are still going hull speed.

Turn 180 degrees and go with the current. Your water is still 6 knots, but your GPS is going to read 9 knots. You are still going hull speed.

Drop anchor in the current. Your water speed is 3 knots, but your GPS is going to read 0 knots.

Shawn

[Shawn]

"His outcome would have been the same if he had a 4hp or even a 10 hp engine."

No, it wouldn't have. He could have simply pointed straight into the wind and motored upwind.

Shawn

[Rick Klages]

"His outcome would have been the same if he had a 4hp or even a 10 hp engine."

No, it wouldn't have. He could have simply pointed straight into the wind and motored upwind.

Shawn

Not without the ability to steer!  No side sheer force no steering no centerboard no side shear!