Honda 2HP

[Shawn]

"Not without the ability to steer! "

So a rowboat with an engine on the back can't head into the wind??

He would have been able to steer very easily, just use the engine. I did that often in my old centerboard boat. With no centerboard down it would wander a little side to side heading dead into wind but it was still very easy to steer. Even with a couple of inches of centerboard it would track straight when motoring as there aren't the huge forces from the sails trying to push you sideways. Or he could have used the rudder. If it is down (even a little) and he is moving through the water the rudder will still turn the boat, even with the centerboard up it will just wander heading into the wind. Centerboard boats on a run often pull up the centerboard for more speed.

Steering with the engine gives you the advantage of having steerage even when you have no water speed because it is vectored thrust.

If he had more power he would still have his boat. Or if he would have done plenty of other things differently (including dropping anchor and waiting it out) he would still have his boat.

Shawn

[Rick Klages]

Row boats and power boats have strakes and keelsons designed to provide shear.  Displacement sailboats rely on keels and or retractable centerboards or dagger boards.  My old Hunter 212 would not steer while motoring without one third of the swing keel lowered.  My old precision 15 was about the same way.  Very imprecise steering without the boards down in dead air. And not steerable into the wind just like the lost Potter. Hulls with "lapstrake" patterns like the montgomery 15 and 17 may generate enough sheer to motor without boards down.  Most sail boats will not.  As he stated: I desperately needed centerboard and rudder, but didn't have depth for them.

Running is not going to windward so pulling up a bit of board on a run is pointless to this discussion.  From your stance on this subject if he had twin mercury mariner one fifties on the transom he could have also gone waterskiing! Truth is he was in a bad place and made a bad choice. 

[Shawn]

"As he stated: I desperately needed centerboard and rudder, but didn't have depth for them."

Absolutely, because he was trying to sail upwind because in his own words "A 2hp Honda cannot compete against high winds."  His Honda didn't have enough power to just motor into the wind. If he had enough water to have his engine down he had enough water to put the center board down even just a touch which would have been plenty if he had the power to overcome the wind. He didn't.

"Running is not going to windward so pulling up a bit of board on a run is pointless to this discussion. "

You said you can't steer without centerboard, it is an everyday common example of a boat steering without any centerboard.

"From your stance on this subject if he had twin mercury mariner one fifties on the transom he could have also gone waterskiing"

Nice strawman.

"Truth is he was in a bad place and made a bad choice.  "

No kidding, he made numerous bad choices. One was thinking he had enough power for high wind situations.

Shawn

[Rick Klages]

"From your stance on this subject if he had twin mercury mariner one fifties on the transom he could have also gone waterskiing"

1. Nice strawman.

2. You said you can't steer without centerboard, it is an everyday common example of a boat steering without any centerboard.

1. It was more an attempt at humor than a debate tactic. 

2. I stated a Bit of centerboard. "Running is not going to windward so pulling up a bit of board on a run is pointless to this discussion." Pulling all of it  results in imprecise steering and much leeway. I also said it was my experience that to achieve good steerage on the two boats cited I needed one third to one half of the board lowered.  This is true for running reaching or motoring.

Once again:

I have owned the Honda in question and used it in the Peconic Bays and the Long Island Sound in some very rough conditions against tide and high winds propelling a larger and heaver boat than a Potter 15 or a Compac 16.  It worked fine for me. I will buy another one when I need a new engine. 

[Bob23]

Interesting debate, men:
   I am reminded of my old SeaPearl 21 days and an attempt at rowing with no centerboard or rudder down. (This was before I had a motor on board. Ah..simplicity!) She was almost impossible to row into the wind. Once the wind got on either side of the bow, with no underwater profile to provide steerage, there was no way to control her and the winds effect on the hull shape above water took over. She would go from side to side and the only way to conteract this was with the oars power applied to the leeward side. 
   You may see no correlation but it's obvious. Rick is talking about the hulls underwater shape and it's ability (or inablity) to provide direction. Weather it's sails, motor or oars; it's just a basic principle of hydrodynamics, I suppose. The Potters hard chines, I would think, would have provided a bit of control, but I've never sailed one so I'm just theorizing. Being an amateur engineer, scientist, philosopher, genius, and thinker of great thoughts, these are just my observations.
   I really appreciate these exhanges on this site. I always learn something and if nothing else, it gets my brain a-thinking, which is always a good thing.
Bob23..keep it going, men! At ease.

[Shawn]

 "Running is not going to windward so pulling up a bit of board on a run is pointless to this discussion." Pulling all of it  results in imprecise steering and much leeway."

Leeway from what? The wind pushing in the same direction you are traveling anyway? I said all the board up on a run.

"I also said it was my experience that to achieve good steerage on the two boats cited I needed one third to one half of the board lowered.  This is true for running reaching or motoring."

My centerboard boat was different.

"I have owned the Honda in question and used it in the Peconic Bays and the Long Island Sound in some very rough conditions against tide and high winds propelling a larger and heaver boat than a Potter 15 or a Compac 16.  It worked fine for me."

Have you considered that your steerage problems were because you didn't have enough engine? 

Shawn

[Shawn]

"She was almost impossible to row into the wind. Once the wind got on either side of the bow, with no underwater profile to provide steerage, there was no way to control her and the winds effect on the hull shape above water took over. She would go from side to side and the only way to conteract this was with the oars power applied to the leeward side.  "

Your problem was you couldn't get up enough speed to overcome the wander. When you are just crawling to wind your little bit of forward progress was wasted fighting the wander.

With more speed through the water your boat would have tracked straighter on its own (from more water flowing over the hull) and even you correcting for the wander you would still have speed left over to make progress to wind. Even put an engine on your SeaPearl? If so would it motor to wind?

"The Potters hard chines, I would think, would have provided a bit of control"

If he could move. They don't do anything at rest. His 2hp couldn't get him moving into the wind. With more power he could have.

Shawn

[Rick Klages]

The Honda 2 provided plenty of headway into the wind on my Hunter as long as I left at least 1/3 of the center board down to allow for good directional command authority. Wind on the nose tends to push a boat out of the winds teeth as Bob 23 stated. I steer with the rudder not the engine. On many small sailboats like the cp16 there is the possibility of interference between the propeller and rudder if you steer to starboard with the engine and don't mind the rudder (especially if the rudder is kicked up).   Bob 23 got my point.  I'm done beating this thing.