What type of motor is on your CP23?

[Mundaysj]

Hi All,
I am not putting Blond Ambition back in the water without a new motor!  I have had it with that (1980) 2 stroke that ended up being a no-stroke more often than not.  Everyone that worked on it said "This is a great little motor, it will last forever!"  yeah... it is a great little motor if you are a mechanic!  I have a 7.5hp but I am thinking of getting a 6hp, as I mainly just use it for getting in and out of the harbor.  Do you think that will be sufficient?  I am definitely getting a new one... I want to pull that string and have the darn thing start!!  Also I am wondering if it makes any difference what manufacturer I buy... is one more trouble prone than another?
Thanks for your valuable input!
Cheers,
Sherie

[kchunk]

Hey Sherie...good to hear from you again. My 23 has an original '91 Tohatsu 9.9. For me, this motor has been absolutely bulletproof. Before I bought it it sat, full of fuel, for about 2 years. The fuel system was completely gummed. I replaced the fuel line, tank, spark plugs and rebuilt the carb and she has run flawlessly ever since.

Do you have a long way to go in and out of your harbor? How is the current? Maybe a large trolling motor might work...just a thought.

[Mundaysj]

Thanks Greg,
Wow... 9.9... now I am thinking maybe I should go to the 8hp rather than the 6hp.  It is not terribly far past the breakwater to get to my mooring, but I have gotten stuck out at the point at Sandy Hook when the wind gave out on me and I had to motor back.  The thing is .. I am never in a hurry when I am on Blond Ambition.  I think of her as a slow boat and I'm OK with that.   Decisions... decisions....
Sherie

[Bob23]

Sherie..my 2 cents:
   Koinonia has a 1988 Nissan 8 hp 2 stroke- starts first pull every time. I was talking to a marine mechanic at rehab last week who informed me that the Nissans and Tohatsus (they are the same) are built really heavy duty with commercial blocks. (Could be bs but it sounds good.) In the past I owned a Tohatsu 3.5 on my SeaPearl...gave me no problems even though I sunk it once. (I apologized to the motor...it forgave me.)
   I've had to motor into a current for 2 hrs straight on occasion and wouldn't want anything less than my 8. I'd love a 4 stroke motor- real quiet, gas misers but I can't justify replacing my Nissan 8.
   As far as manufacturers, I've been told to stay away from Suzuki 4 stroke. I'd buy a Honda if I bought new. Also, the 4 strokes are quite heavy compared to a comparable hp 2 stroke so you may want to have your outboard bracket checked. (I seem to remember it was a bit of a problem child.)
Just my 2 cents. Keep the change!
Bob23...gettin' ready for a April Fools Day launch. ( I am not superstitious!)
   

[newt]

Hi Sherie,
Mine is a Honda 9.9 with an alternator and starter. It does lower the back a bit, but is absolutely bulletproof.  I have a Yamaha 6 horsepower in the garage should I ever wear out the Honda (it came with the boat) So far the Honda hasn't even needed a tuneup. (going on its second season)

[edbuchanan]

Hi Sherie,

I have been using a Johnson (same as Evinrude) 6 horse power 2 stroke on my 23/II for 14 years now, with good results.  The fuel economy is ok at about 0.45 gallons per hour, so the six gallon tank lasts over 13 hours at 4.5 knots.  The original Com-Pac owner's manual recommends  6 to 8hp for the 23.  The real limit of this engine seems to be the propeller rising out of the water in heavy seas, not the horse power.  It would be nice if the propeller could be deeper, but then it might be impossible to raise the gearbox high enough during storage.  The small Johnson's are now made in China, mine was of U.S. manufacture.

Ernie (Molly, 23/II 1984)

[mrb]

HI Sherie

As I don't have a 23 wont offer advice on HP.  Will say if you are not sure if 6 or 8 or whatever check the fact sheets.  Often they are same basic motor, just carberation diff.  If they weigh the same maybe the larger.

On Make or brand,  Smaller American Mercurys are made by the Japanese Tohatsu who evidently makes Nissan, for whatever it's worth.

melvin

[Mundaysj]

Thanks everyone.  I think I might head up to Defender's warehouse sale at the end of March and see what kind of deal I can scrounge up!  Has anyone ever been there?  Will it be worth a couple hour drive?
Thanks,
Sherie

[mike gartland]

Sherie

My 2-cents might be a little late but I would second the opinion of going bigger rather than smaller if you have any tidal currents to deal with.  My '89 CP-23/3 still has it's original 9.9 electric-start Tohatsu 2-stroke and there have been times when bucking a strong tidal current (3 knot+?) and a stiff headwind that I have been very happy to have the extra horsepower.  The only reason I might be tempted to drop down to 8 hp when the day comes to replace the 9.9 is for fuel efficiency.  The weight of the motors is identical the last time I checked so I don't gain anything there going smaller.  There may also be issues with getting an electric start with the smaller motors...the electric-start function isn't a major factor as it has started on the first or second pull any time I have tried just to convince myself that all would be well it the electric start doesn't function some day...but the bigger advantage in my mind is getting my battery recharged every time I motor out into the Bay so that it is available for powering my nav lights when I don't give up sailing till it gets dark.  It's also available for powering the cabin lights when we're aboard overnight.  I know there are other ways to keep a battery charged but this has been fool-proof and is one less thing I have to worry about.

Mike
WindRush

[Potcake boy]

Sherie,
I power my 19 with a 6hp Yamaha 4stroke two cylinder, and it is more than needed, but I wanted a two cylinder and that's as small as they come. I love how much smoother and quiter this motor is than the single cylinder motors I've been around.
As far as HP is concerned, that's not really the main issue. What's more important for a displacement hull is the available torque, as we don't get these things up on plane and so most of the excess horsepower is never really tapped. I'd recommend the Yamaha 8hp high thrust because it is more than enough to move your vessel against big wind and current. It's a 4stroke 2 cylinder and has the same powerhead as my 6hp, but the 8hp is the smallest high thrust available and comes with a high thrust prop. These props also give far superior performance in reverse as they port the exhaust through the center of the hub to prevent cavitiation. The electric start version comes with a built in rectifier but that can be added to the manual (or should that be womanual) start for a little over a hundred dollars DIY or I'm sure a dealer would be happy to install it for a cough cough reasonable fee. The rectifier is a 6amp output and keeps my battery up just fine. This is a very smooth and quiet motor, and except for me loosing a small part out of the carbeurator - it still ran - it has been 100% reliable and starts on the first or second pull everytime.  I have modified my bracket to extend lower so I use a 15" shaft but the 8hp high thrust also comes in 20" and 25" versions.
Keep in mind that the weight increases somewhat when you go from a single cylinder to a 2 cylinder but shouldn't be an issue on a 23 - it's not a problem on my 19.
Defender has some pretty good clearance sales but I'd call first to see what they have available. Also check the web, there is likely to be some very good pricing on model year clear outs at regular boat dealers.
Good luck and please let us know the outcome,
Ron

[Bob23]

Sherie:
   If you replace your motor, I might be interested in buying the old one. Just let me know what brand it is and how much you'd like for it.
Bob23..."The Motor Head!"

[Steve Ullrich]

Sherie - You can buy a new motor and find that you may still have problems getting it to start when you need it, especially in the Spring after you pull it out of storage.  I just posted this info in another thread but it is relevant here as well: Blame the gas. Ethanol clogs up any carb and it can do it inside of a month.  A tip for you: Buy only non-oxygenated gas for your small engines.  Lawn mowers, snow blowers, weed eaters, outboard engines, etc.  Toss a shot of SeaFoam in for every gallon if you want extra insurance. Be sure you have non-oxygenated gas with some SeaFoam in it when you winterize her and you won't have any carb issues next Spring.  I had problems with a kicker for years before I found that out.  I'd get the carb worked on and haver her running great and a month or two later she wouldn't start.  Pretty annoying and plenty frustrating.  If you have low hours on your old '80's kicker you might consider one more trip to the shop and trying the good gas in her before giving up on her for good.  I bought a new Yamaha 6hp last summer for my sailboat.  Had a Hunter 23 at that time.  While I was taking delivery I told the salesman about the problems I'd been having trying to get my old engine to start and run when I needed her.  He told me I'd have the same problems with the new one before the end of the summer if I used Ethanol.  Kind of made me wish I hadn't just given him $1800...

[Craig Weis]

Motor problems?
It's not so much the motor as much as the ethanol [10% min by Federal law] that soaks and expands the thin rubber in the carb's fuel/pulse operated fuel pump within the carburetor. About as thin as a Durex. Not that I would know.

It is these rubber bellows that pulse when new and taught and are re-active to crankshaft pressure changes to pump fuel to the carburetor. Additionally 'one way' fuel valves are suspect and becoming very difficult to push fuel through that is under almost no carb pump pressure.

Perhaps, holding the envelope closer to the turbine, like The Great Carnick did for Johnny Carson would reveal that maybe it was this sticky hard to push through valve that made the thin rubber bellows fag out by working extra hard. I'll never know.

I got rid of the one way fuel valve and can only run my 200? Mercury 2 cycle 5 hp O/B on the internal gravity flow fuel tank and must fill from the aux tank by taking off the connection and hand pumping the squeeze bulb to fill.

When I pulled my carb apart last year while drifting about at sea no less, those rubbers were 'overly' large and had no elasticity left in them.  Just junk. Pulling the one way fuel valve out of the service line and 'pucker blowing' in the direction of flow was darn near impossible as opposed to blowing through a new valve. So there you have it.

Now I hear tell that BP gas station premium has no ethanol. But I'm not convinced. Crummy reason to buy a new motor that may develop the same problems. skip.

[Bob23]

TALES FROM THE ETHANOL PLANET.
   It is true about this ethanol problem; I've heard too many accounts. I just don't understand why I have no problems with my motor, year after year. I use premium fuel, keep it fresh, put in winter stabilizer in the winter and a bit during the summer when I refuel. I keep it tuned and most  of all, USE IT! If you just start it occasionally and don't let it run for an extended period of time, well, engines don't like that sort of life. They want to feel needed, like they have a purpose. When I haven't had to use mine as auxillary for a while, I go out motoring for a half hour of so, let it heat up to normal operating temperature.
   And they have to be winterized correctly. I do my own, not a big deal but then again, I do confess to being a recovering air-cooled VW motorhead. Maybe not recovering so well!
Bob23, 1988 Nissan 8 hp 2 stroke

[Craig Weis]

Yea me to, I use my engine a lot, but still it is fed by gravity, not the pump as explained below.
As a kid a huge number of air cooled VW's, one with semifore for turn signals. 1954?

Had one that dad and I took all the glass out of. A 1957 36 hp VW and welded the doors shut put in a five-way restraint out of a jet aeroplane, bought a helmet, gloves, ect, so me and my buddies could run it up on an incline plank and yank the steering wheel over, causing it to roll up side down and back on it's wheels. Dad figured since I was going to drive like a fool might as well learn how to survive. He was pure Navy.

Worked at Sand Pounder's Incorporated Palatine, Illinois shooting chopped fiberglass bodies. Later for Phil's Auto Top in Evenston, Illinois. A DuneBuggy and Bosch warehouse.
First one I shot was mine. A few vans, the last was a 1986 VW wasserboxer Syncro with 2.2 liter. And an 1984 Rabbit GTI.
I use either Seafoam or Stabil, in the 1930 Ford Model "A" for it's 6 month storage. It started right up first turn of the key two Saturdays ago.

No here is the problem with the 2 cycles, coagulating oil, left after the gasohol has evaporated during it's 6 month storage. The oil is like a green jelly and it does not dissolve with carb cleaner, but rather balls up and has to be peeled away. No matter how drained the fuel system is  [empty the bowel]  or how full it remains make little difference. The EPA has mandated an emission standard and that alone has dictated an orifice size that is so miserly that it is easily plugged up with the oil after the fuel has left.
skip.