We had our first outing...now questions for the experienced.

[kchunk]

OK, we've had our 23 for almost two weeks now. Engine has been gone over, electronics gone over, we had all of our ducks in a row and decided to head out yesterday for our first sail. Now I have a few questions for the experienced CP owners. Ours has the Tohatsu OB with cockpit controls. How do you folks with outboards steer under power? The boat's tiller or the engine tiller? Our OB has no tiller so I was left to steer only with the boat tiller. Wasn't a real problem, but in the tight places around the slip, having a tiller on the engine would have given much more control I'd think. My previous boat was inboard diesel with wheel steering, so I'm no stranger to trying to steer a boat at low speeds with the rudder...not a whole lot of fun and some almost exciting moments 

Another observation, I've sailed boats in the past with tillers, but much smaller and less displacement. However, I was very surprised as to how much effort was required to steer the boat. I figured this was normal, right?

And speaking of rudder? Do you folks pin your rudder down? I have the standard Com-Pac block-o-aluminum rudder. If it's not pinned down will it be driven upward by the hydrodynamic drag of the boat moving forward? And if so, is there a speed at which the drag overcomes the weight of the rudder? We sail in relatively shallow waters and I really don't want to lose the rudder in our first week.

Sorry for all the questions and I'm sure there'll be a lot more to come as we're getting to know our boat. Thanks everyone for the help!

[Paul]

Well, as for the outboard, I'll let other 23 owners reply.  As for the rudder, when I used the aluminum rudder, it had a bolt with a handle on the nut which tightened down enough to keep the rudder down in all conditions excepting a grounding.  Now I use an IdaSailor Rudder which tends to stay down, too, by the same method.

If you didn't want to splurge on a new rudder (lots of talk of that on other threads), you could figure a way to get the rudder hinge to tighten further.  I'd first check the threads of the hinge bolt.  If that looks good, then add a washer or two which should add to the clamping power of the assembly.

[LConrad]

The foil rudder made a big difference for our 23/3 steering with much less effort under power and under sail.  I normally use the tiller but have been thinking of a little invention to couple the tiller with the motor for low speeds.  Reverse with only the tiller seems the most difficult for me.  A couple of times, I reached back to steer the tillerless motor by the motor cover.

[kchunk]

LConrad, Thanks for the reply. I've been thinking about exactly what you're talking about. I was at the boat yesterday, thinking and tinkering and came up with a solution that worked great for us! At the marina, we have our boat nosed in the slip. When I backing out, I have the length of the boat and about 12'-15' before I'm backing into the boats behind us. Maneuvering was kind of tight with rudder only so I needed a solution that would steer the motor too. What I did was couple the rudder to the engine for less than $10 in parts from Home Depot and going out today was completely easy.

I'll post some pictures of it once I perfect it, but all it involved was a small length of line, an 18" bungee and a 6 or 8 inch eye bolt (I'll measure it and let you know exactly how long it is). Our setup has the Tohatsu 9.9 on the port side of the rudder (I'll assume that's normal). I replaced the tiller pivot bolt with the stainless eyebolt I bought at Home Depot. I used two nylon lock nuts to secure the tiller to the rudder with the extra long eyebolt with the eye and the extra length off to starboard. I then drilled two 1/4" holes, one at each aft corner of the engine (I'll post pictures so you'll see what I'm talking about). On the port side hole, I hooked the bungee from the hole to a port side stern rail stanchion. This would spring load the engine to turn the hull to port. The starboard side hole I tied the line. The line goes to a turnbuckle ( turnbuckle not necessary, but makes for easy adjustment), and the turnbuckle hooked to the extended eyebolt.

So basically, to turn port, the tiller is moved starboard allowing the bungee to pull the aft of the engine to port, assisting my turn to port, and to turn starboard, the tiller is moved port and the line pulls the aft of the engine to starboard assisting in that turn. There's very little force required on the tiller to maintain straight and I used a small bungee to assist if needed.

Piece of cake! I know a picture can say a thousand words and my few words here can confuse a thousand men. If you'd like me to email you the pictures directly just PM me your email address and I'll email them to you personally. I'll probably be at the marina tomorrow and I'll take the camera.

--Greg

[Bob23]

Greg:
   Congrats on your first sail. I found that manuvering under power using the tiller/rudder worked just fine except in tight quarters, when I'd just use the OB. (Mine is a Nissan 8.0) Also had the problem with the rudder pushing itself back due to the water pressure; I'd like to but the Ida Rudder- seems like the way to go.
   Mine does seem to have much weather helm; much more than my friends 19 does. I guess further adventures in sail trim might lessen this a bit. If I don't bu the Ida, I plan on reconnoitering the current flat blade into a quasi- foil rudder.
   I also sail in shallow waters. I don't pin the blade down- I've found that if I tighten the bolt enough, the blade will only go back so far. It will still kick all the way up before a grounding. My blade sits about 6" deeper than the keel. Rich Hutchins said this was normal.
   I'm jealous! My 23 sits on her trailer, under cover and undergoing usual winter maintainence/upgrades.
   Bob23

[LConrad]

Greg,

Cool.  I'll be looking for the pictures.

[mike gartland]

I replace the standard aluminum slab rudder with the Ida-Sail foil soon after acquiring my boat a couple of years ago and have not regretted it.  She sails with much less weather helm, especially when I get the sail balance right...I have a roller furling 120 genoa which I can tweak to match the wind conditions with either a full or reefed main and end up with just the right amount of weather helm.  Sometimes it's trial-and-error but I can usually get it to work just fine.

As for the rudder pin, I always use one of the nylon (or plastic ?) shear pins available from Ida-Sail.  I have sheered one on a couple occasions when running aground (i believe my replacement rudder draws slightly more than the keel also) but have found that the combination of the shear pin and friction bolt hold the rudder firmly in place at all sailing and motoring speeds.

[curtisv]

Another observation, I've sailed boats in the past with tillers, but much smaller and less displacement. However, I was very surprised as to how much effort was required to steer the boat. I figured this was normal, right?

Sounds like you may have a weather helm problem.  A foiled rudder will help but too much sail and too much heel will do cause this.  What was the wind speed and what sailed did you have up?

Curtis