Ethanol in gasoline frustrations

[mike gartland]

It seems that one or both of my outboards (a 9.9 hp 2-stroke Tohatsu on my CP-23 and a 2 hp 4-stroke Honda on my Precision-15) are always in the shop for carburetor cleaning and adjusting due to the high ethanol content of our gasolines here along the Texas Gulf Coast.  I have faithfully kept fresh fuel with Star-Brite stabilizer in both tanks and have attempted to keep the tanks topped off to reduce the volume of humid air above the gas which can generate liquid water as the tanks cool some overnight.  I run both motors dry of fuel each time I shut them down to remove all gasoline from the carburetors and fuel lines.  These have all been suggested by more than one technician, dock rat, "expert", or others.  Still the motors both continue to fail when I need them most and have led to some very exciting moments in crowded or narrow channels while motoring in or out of my marina.  I should also add that the Honda is just a little over a year old (a 2006) and the Tohatsu is of unknown vintage but I suspect somewhere near 15 years of age.  When the motors are running, they both perform beautifully....but when they decide to go bad, it happens quite suddenly and can barely be started again and sometimes coaxed back to shore and sometimes not.  Then it's off to my outboard repair shop again.   Any and all suggestions about possible solutions to these frustrations are appreciated.

[spaul]

Hi Mike,
Read your post and have been mulling it over. I have had some 2 cycle engine problems with leaf blowers, etc but today my chipper just quit for no reason. Could be water in the gas but the addition of ethanol should help to absorb some of any water that condenses in the tanks. Have you tried additional alcohol in the form of a water absorber if water seems to be your problem. Could you add a water separator to see if you can capture that water, that might be a clue as to what is going on.
I was also wondering about two other conditions:
What is the normal cause of repair when you pick these engines back up. Or what did the shop do to make them run again?
Secondly, is anyone selling a straight gasoline down there without ethanol? If you can obtain some straight gas perhaps that would offer some insight as to whether it's the gasoline or something else. Just trying to help with your problem since it's not only a PITA but could be quite dicey at times I'm sure.
Let us know your results as I'm sure it has to get better sometime
Steve Paul

[spaul]

Hey Mike, it's me again.
I've been researching ethanol gasoline products and marine problems. Some interesting ideas are here in the Mercury Marine site regarding problems with marine outboards and different ethanol mixtures.

http://www.eastcoastmarineservice.com/ethanol.htm

Some of the items of interest include corrosions of  metals, plastics and even the rubber seals and parts inside your engine. If your filters are constantly plugged you may need to add a water filter and perhaps replace some rubber lines etc. Please read the whole article, it has some great insights into associated problems. Hope it helps.

Steve

[edbuchanan]

Hi Mike,

Do you close your fuel tank vent when you leave your boat?  I have been running E-10 fuel in the boat for some time now, and have experienced no problems thus far with my 1995 Johnson 2 stroke 6HP.  I use no fuel stabilizer during the winter.

The fuel vent on Molly is always closed when she is not in use.  It seems that most of your problems are from water getting into your system.

Ernie (Molly 23/II 1984)

[Salty19]

It sounds almost like water is in the fuel.  You could try to add automotive fuel water remover (essentially alcohol) in the correct ratio to see if it helps.

This may or may not be related, but are you turned the fuel off while underway, or at any other time besides actually running the motor? If not, do it.  As the motor bounces around, be it on the trailer or water, the carb float will move around a bit, allowing more fuel to enter the carb. Too much fuel=too rich, which will often cause the motor to not start. Especially if warm.

Keep the gas turned off ALWAYS unless the motor is actually running or you're attempting to start it).  If you tilt the motor up with the gas valve open, it will surely run like stuff too.

Another possibiltity is a worn float valve seat, which will let excess fuel leak into the carb. Yes, the new Honda may have this problem too if foreign matter etched the float valve. Even with the gas valve turned off, additional fuel can still be added to the carb float bowl if this is worn as some gas is still in the lines. Even a tablespoon full of additional gas in the carb float can be the difference between starting or not.

Hope this helps!