More rudder nonsense

[Craig]

To all who have the IdaSailor rudder:

I received my new rudder today.  It looks reasonably well made.  One question:  Did any of you caulk the top of the HDPE section?  It appears that water will fill the small gap between the metal insert and the HDPE foil.  Anyone not do this and have water in your rudder?  Don't want to be picky but it's easy to do now before I splash the boat with the rudder this weekend.

Craig

[Gil Weiss]

Hi Craig,

I tightened the bolts holding the foil to the plate and that was it. I did not see the small gap you mention? If you have any doubts, I would caulk it too. I keep me rudder in the water all the time to make it less of a target to other people passing buy my slip. All I do is brush the crud off every few weeks. HDPE can't be painted, etc. as nothing seems to stick to it which maybe includes caulk?

When are you going to try it out? We need to hear how you like it.

[Craig]

Gil,

It looks like the HDPE was molded/milled or however it is shaped, then the slot that the plate slides in was cut.  That's where there is a bit of a gap.  It's not big, nor am I worried about the water damaging the rudder, just discoloring it.  It will be an easy job to run a bead of caulk around the top.  I'll use some marine caulk that I bought from West Marine.  Com-Pac sent me a HDPE ring adapter for the cowl vent I bought from them and the caulk does stick to that (sort of!).

What do you think of fairing the bolt holes with a little caulk as well?  Getting a bit obsessive?

Craig

[CaptK]

Craig -

Mine has a gap inside which water can get in to. Not a problem, as the water drains when the rudder is tilted up. If anything grew in their or otherwise discolored it, I imagine a little slosh of bleach would clean it right up.

Have fun!

[Gil Weiss]

Craig,

I agree with Captain Kurt. As to obsessive, you must have noted that I am inclined to be obsessive about my boat too. I take pride in what I own and get overly obsessive, and possessive, about taking care of my possessions. I have to control myself at times, but it is tough.

On the other hand, I am amazed at some of the boat owners at Nockamixon who keep unseaworthy craft in the water and do nothing to maintain them?

I just got back from a 700+ raod trip for work. I was in the norfolk VA area and then in northern Virginia on business. Looks like rain here today and a blowout tomorrow regarding sailing, but I plan on getting up there tomorrow anyway.

I hope you get to try the rudder out today.

[Craig]

Gil,

Ivan went east of us and straight to you!  My folks are in the Poconos this week.  I haven't talked to them since they've gotten there to see how they're fairing.  I've just gotten back from a great sail, and I would have stayed out longer but family time is still my top priority.

The rudder is a definite improvement.  Weather helm is still there, as I expected, but with the slight balance the tiller pressure is much less.  I also felt like I had more control when heeled.  The wind is blowing 8 to 10 mph with gusts in the mid teens to 20 mph.  I kept full sail up to see how she'd do.  I heeled a maximum of 35 degrees but did not feel like I was fighting the tiller as in the past.  I am not sure if I can really point any higher.  What I do get is a little more speed since the tiller is not acting like a brake.

When I was setting up the boat to launch I saw another CP-16 on the water.  It had the older ensign (like mine) so I knew it was about the same vintage as mine.  By the time I got launched it was a couple of miles south and east of me.  I sailed on a heading between 90 and 120 degrees (trying to stay close hauled on a beat in the shifting winds).  He tacked north towards me and eventually we wound up on the same tack.  It took me about 20 minutes but I finally caught and passed them.  Yeah!!  There were two adults in the boat (husband and wife?) which makes a difference in a boat as small as ours.  He shouted something, I'm not sure if it was a greeting or a "get out of my way I want to tack" but he didn't seem interested in a conversation, so I tacked north and he stayed on the east southeast heading.  Maybe it was the rudder that gave me that little extra speed because it was not acting as a brake when the weatherhelm gets fierce.

I then chased a McGreggor 26, the original not the 26x, as I came to a west heading and actually was doing a respectable job in hanging with him.  Wow! The McGreggor is a tender boat!  He almost had his rail in the water when I was only heeling about 15 degrees.  I guess you've got to get that water ballast out of the water before it does much.  He eventually turned north and I turned south back toward the ramp.  Fun!

If the weather cooperates I hope to work at mast rake next Saturday and see if I can reduce the weatherhelm to where it feels comfortable to me.

Have a great one!
Craig

[Gil Weiss]

Hi Craig,

I'm glad to get your report but it is hard to make comparisons as there are variables. At least you do notice some positve effects of the foiled rudder!

When I launched this year I raked my mast a bit forward of where it was last year at the same time I began using the new rudder. I also have a 16/3 so the jib is forward of yours.

So, I don't know which difference had a bigger efect on weather helm. I do know that the weather helm last year was very tiring and now it it a non issue. I also have much better control steering in all situations. I am convinced that I point better with the foiled rudder as I can hold the same position as other boats while beating into the wind.

Anyway, try raking the mast a bit forward and see what happens? It was nasty hear all day yesterday. I am sure your parents are fine but may be a tad damp. They are talking about major flooding on the Delaware River from Easton on down due to all the rain and fast run off.

I am heading up to the boat today myself. Probably will stay in port but will have to see.

[Craig]

Further thoughts on tuning the rig of a 16/1 with an Idasailor rudder...

I raked my mast as far forward as the forestay would allow.  With the foiled rudder I was able to lessen, but not eliminate weather helm.  However, with the tiller tamer I was able to set the sails tighten the tamer and sail for a while with my hand off the tiller.  I could never do that before.

Don't know how many of you 16 sailors are as curious (or foolhardy) as me, but I'm always considering ways to get my 16 to point higher.  Since the weather helm has been tamed, I was sailing today in winds 5 to 10 mph sustained with gusts in the mid teens.  I was on a starboard tack, beating hard to windward and pointing to about 50 degrees of true wind.  I took the starboard jib sheet out of the fairlead, took it around the mast so both sheets were on the same side, but ran it on the inside of the stay.  I ran it back to the starboard mooring cleat and pulled it to just off the mast to see what would happen.  The leech started fluttering like crazy, so I put my foot on the sheet and pushed it down so the angle of sheeting was less.  The flutter stopped and I THINK I was able to squeeze another 5 degrees to windward.  Am I dreaming?  I tried to watch my compass and it really did seem I was able to point a bit higher doing this.  I could not do it for very long because it is awkward pushing down on the sheet.

Comments?

Craig

[multimedia_smith]

Hi Craig,
I had the same compulsion to seal off the top of the IDA rudder to prevent water from getting in... then I thought about the bolt holes...
Then I called IDA and asked them about it.  (I was worried that the salt water from Lake Ponchartrain would corrode it to dust in short order)...
They assured me that they had no complaints of gross corrosion from salt water exposure... but told me that if I wanted to seal it, to go ahead.
I have resisted the compulsive urge to fiddle with it and I rinse it out when I do the boat and tilt it up before putting it back into the garage.
I did wet sand it and got it VERY smooothe.
Dale

[Craig]

Dale,

I've thought about sanding the rudder, too.  It is finished pretty good.  I'm assuming you used a very fine paper?

Craig

[bro t]

Hi Craig (et al.),
I've been pretty pleased with my existing rudder, but am interested to know more technically about the foil(ed?) rudder, and also where to obtain at the best price, if you know?  It doesn't make sense to me that a rudder can alter the boat's weather helm, but that a more efficient rudder makes counter-acting the weather helm easier, thus it seems 'less'.  But there is a lot I don't know, and I am interested to know more of this rudder nonsense!  I am also interested to know, how much further forward can you rake the mast from its position flat on the mount base?  Just interested.....
bro t. from Upwest Maine

[Gil Weiss]

The flat plate rudder works on drag which turns the boat but is most inefficient. The "airfoiled" shaped rudder genrates "lift" and pulls the boat to one side or the other. Much less movement is required to make a turn so the drag factor goes WAY down between the less movement and the lifting surface. This affects everything from lessening weather helm to slow speed steering while docking.

The difference is dramatic and well worth the investment.

[Craig]

bro t,

The only place to buy a foiled rudder is from Idasailor.  
http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php
It's made of HDPE.  The leading edge is forward of the pivot center so the rudder is semi-balanced which reduces the pull of the tiller, but does not eliminate weather helm.  Their website is not secure so I called to place my order.

Also, you cannot rake the mast so far forward as to lift it significantly off the tabernacle.  At least not with the standard forestay turnbuckle.  Mine is as tight as it will go.

Craig

[bro t]

Thanks Gil and Craig,  I am definitely upgrading the rudder next spring before we hit the water!  I don't take a lot of convincing, but I can also see now that a dragging turbulent rudder will change the center of effort of the hull!  Not a good thing.......... thanks for your quick response.
bro t. from Upwest Maine

[Craig Weis]

My replacement rudder also has a little seep well in it's construction. I do cock her up all the way when on the pier in freezing temperatures. I don't want it to freeze and crack.
The replacement rudder weighs more than the blade on land. But the replacement rudder floats and weighs a wee bit less than the blade in the water. Amazing