Suncat winch

[Ken J]

Has anyone mounted a winch on a suncat ?  Thanks

Ken

[Ken J]

So I take it that no one has a winch on their suncat ?

[MarshHen]

Are you talking about an anchor windlass?

[kickingbug1]

i dont know why you need a winch on a suncat

[Ken J]

No talking about a winch to help hoist the sail - as I age a little getting the last few of the sail all the way up is a little challenge - sorry I was not more clear - it takes a fair amount of strength to get the sail all the way up

[bruce]

I never liked that the purchase on the throat and peak halyards weren't matched, so when raising the sail you'd have to haul twice as much on the the 2:1 peak halyard to match the 1:1 throat halyard to keep the gaff roughly horizontal as advised. I had Com-Pac make my throat halyard 2:1 to match the peak, and I haul on the lines together, as on every other catboat I've ever seen. An added advantage, that you'd benefit from, is the throat goes up easier.

In the photo of my PC, the throat halyard runs up the mast to the cheek block and back to the gooseneck. In the stock 1:1 set up it's fixed to the gooseneck, to get 2:1 purchase use a block at the gooseneck and fix the line up the mast, opposite the cheek block in this case.

[zfami]

I like that throat halyard ratio advantage - might consider rigging that myself in a couple more years if I can't source younger crew to muscle it up.

[Ken J]

Ah took me a bit but I see it now - I'll have to check that out - plus I did buy a new gooseneck slide - old was not terrible but it was a little off - and when I put it in I will plan to grease as I understand that's what Compac did - thanks !!

[Roland of Macatawa]

I'm coming to this conversation a little late.

I endorse the idea of changing the throat halyard to a 2:1 purchase, and have done so on my SunDayCat.
However, I did it a little differently than Bruce did.

I wanted a bolt-on solution which could be easily reversed to factory condition by a future owner should they wish.
I hung a becket block high on the mast using a bracket of my design, and fabricated by my work colleagues.
It attaches above at the lower bail of the peak halyard.
As with Bruce, a block is attached to the gaff at the mast gooseneck.
My throat halyard is routed from the the becket, then down around the block on the gaff at the throat, then back up around the becket block and finally down along the mast to the existing cleat.
The factory cheek block on the mast is unused, and it is left in place.

Bruce's method works fine, but one caution is necessary.
Using the existing factory cheek block you will not be able to raise the sail as far up, because the added block at the gooseneck takes up some vertical length.
Consider raising the cheek block and the companion line termination, so that the position of the cheek block does not limit raising the sail to your desired full height.
I presume the factory, when modifying their standard design at Bruce's request, did this for him.

Regards, Roland

[bruce]

No, I've checked numerous photos of PCs and the cheek block is always above the shroud and forestay tangs.

Gerry didn't think that going 2:1 on the throat halyard would work, and was surprised when it did. He wasn't motivated to prove himself wrong.

Here's another PC with 2:1 on the throat halyard. He used a cleat in the track to fix the line. He ran his peak halyard a little different, but that's not the issue here.

You may need to move the cheek block on a SC, can't say.

OK, if you look at the shop drawing Dwyer used to set up the mast for the PC you can se the cheek block is installed above 1/4" hole for the tangs.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11287.msg85116#msg85116

[Roland of Macatawa]

Hi; Bruce, Ken:

Bruce, I defer to your expertise of the Picnic Cat.
I had presumed the PC's throat halyard cheek block configuration was similar to that on my SunDayCat.
Turns out they are dissimilar.
As you said, the PC's cheek block is mounted above the shroud and forestay tangs, ~6 inches by the drawing,
yet on the SC it is mounted ~6 inches below the tangs.
As such, the cheek block acts as an upward stop on the raising of the SC's sail.

Ken, If you are now raising your sail fully to the cheek block, be cautious.
If you convert to the 2:1 purchase, as Bruce has implemented, you will not be able to raise the sail as far.
The added block at the gooseneck will take up some of the vertical length.
Check it out carefully on your boat as you use it.
You may need to raise the cheek block, and the line's termination, above the shroud and forestay tangs, as it is on the PicnicCat.

Best Regards, Roland

[bruce]

Thanks for pointing that out, Roland. Moving the cheek block and adding an anchor, or using the lower peak halyard bail attachment with a preferably non-swiveling shackle block and anchor if you don't want to drill new holes, could work.

Here's Dwyer's spar drawings for the SC line.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11288.msg85117#msg85117

 

[Ken J]

Soooo back to my original question - what do y'all think of adding a small winch to hep raise the sail ? Is that just a crazy idea ?

[bruce]

Yeah, we did stray a bit!

I searched the Sun Cats and Sunday Cats forum for "winch" and got 29 hits. Most, of course, were about the trailer winch, and some about the Mastendr Plus mast raising system, but there were a few about halyards. The first, and most relevant, was by DanM in 2018, hit #3, Hoisting Sail. Just as in your case, we went off smartly talking about halyard purchase.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11155.0

The others were about using a winch on the throat downhaul to tension the luff, as the HC is equipped. Some considered adding one to their SC, but I'm not sure anyone did it.

Go for it if you want, and enjoy working out the details, it should be fine. I'll throw in one more pitch for increasing the purchase on the throat halyard. If 2:1 isn't enough, it would be easy to try 3:1 or even 4:1 for the cost of an additional block(s) and line. Cheaper and easier, I'd guess.

[Ken J]

Thank you Bruce for taking the time to post and research - guess it does not sound like a good idea :-)