Crack in mast

[passagesfromtheheart]

Well, I've recently found a new captain/steward for my Com-Pac 25, so time to turn my attention to finding my next boat. I'm looking for a Sun Cat or a Sunday Cat. I found a boat and the seller shared a photo (see attached) of a small crack on the tabernacle with me; I'd like your opinion about this crack and how to address/mitigate repairing it. I'm also wondering about just replacing the tabernacle. Overkill? Is this crack something that is easily repaired with the help of a welder? Does anyone know if replacement tabernacles are even available for a boat of this vintage? It's a 2001 model. Many thanks for chiming in.

[bruce]

Damage to the track above and below the hinge is unfortunately common. Typically this is caused by lowering the mast with the gaff gooseneck, sail slides, and/or boom gooseneck not properly stowed on the mast stub before the mast is folded down. Usually the mast track is spread, but the mast track can crack, especially if this had happened repeatedly and the mast has been work hardened.

Inspect the track on the mast just above the hinge as well, it's more common for the damage to occur there. Fortunately there isn't a lot of localized stress on the track in these areas when sailing, so repairs are very serviceable if the mast is folded down properly. The hinge itself, aka tabernacle, isn't featured, and usually isn't damaged. From what I see in the photo it's fine. They can be replaced as well, if it were necessary.

Welding would work here, or replace the mast stub. That's a pain but not big deal, Dwyer Mast can sell you the length of extrusion you'll need (link below). A simple brace bolted across the split would probably be adequate. If you found additional damage on the track above the hinge that would need to be addressed as well.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11288.msg85117#msg85117

I wouldn't pass on the boat for this alone. As I said, many boats have experienced this damage, and have repaired it successfully.

[passagesfromtheheart]

Thanks so much, Bruce, for all of the fantastic info! So, yeah, I was wrong in calling that part of the mast with the crack the tabernacle - don't know why, but I always thought that the tabernacle was synonymous with mast stub - thanks for correcting me on that! Just goes to show how much I need to learn about this type of rig!

Your advice gives me confidence re: this situation with the crack isn't as catastrophic as I initially envisioned. I recall reading, in other threads here on the forum, re: the problems with lowering the mast with the gaff gooseneck, sail slides, and/or boom gooseneck not being properly stowed on the mast stub before the mast is folded down. It sounds like it does happen a lot.

Being that I live in an area where access to help is quite limited, I am not sure that I can locate a welder to repair the crack. Perhaps a new part would be the way to go.

Below is another view of the crack.

Also, let me ask this: What other picadillos should I look for with this particular model -- again the year is 2001. I know that this model has the mid-boom sheeting (which I actually prefer) and the stainless centerboard trunk (corrosion is potentially an issue as this boat did see some salt water usage earlier in her life). Anything else aside from those particular nuances mentioned above which are respective to this model and should be thoroughly inspected? Of course, I realize I still need to look for the rest of the obvious details when buying a new used boat, I just mean is there anything else regarding this 2001 model that I should look for specifically? Thanks!!!!

[bruce]

Thanks for the additional photo. There is some spreading and general minor deformation and  rounding over of edges in the mast track below and above the hinge. This not an area subject to localized wear in normal use, the track should appear straight and uniform as it does in other areas. This likely was caused by more than one instance of lowering the mast without the gear stowed below on the mast stub, thus the work hardening and crack.

Again, when sailing, the spar goosenecks and sail slides are all usually at or above the hinge, no stress is being applied to the track below the hinge. The mast itself is structurally sound, and doesn't rely on the track for stiffness. You could require that the current owner have the crack welded as a condition of the purchase. I doubt the current owner would spring for replacing the mast stub.

Alternatively, you could just install a brace over the spit fastened with tapped machine screws and monitor the area for stability. Com-Pac offered longer repair bars for when sections of the track had broken off, or the track was too deformed to function as a track, and slides would fall out of the track. Here you still have the track, it just needs a little support at the crack.

Personally I would prefer mid-boom sheeting and the SS trunk as well. Significant corrosion issues in the trunk, if any, should be visible. I don't own a Sun Cat, but leaks in the transom fittings and CB trunk are found in all of the catboats from time to time, being similarly designed. The bilge should be dry normally. I'll let Sun Cat owners offer a check list what to look for.

[passagesfromtheheart]

Bruce, you are the best — thanks so much for sharing add'l thoughts re: this situation concerning the crack — I may ask the seller if he knows of a welder in his area where the work can be done. He's been great to work with, and he also strikes me as both reasonable as well as very honest re: the picadillows he's aware that the boat has.

Curious, why do you suppose damage is so common in these boats to the track/mast — I wonder if folks are just not made aware of the preventative measures which must be followed to ensure integrity of the equipment? I am glad to now know what I'll need to do in this capacity once I have a boat of my own.

Yes, the leaking fittings on the transom — I'm thinking this might mean scupper tubes? I seem to recall a Sun Cat owner here on the forum sharing a story of his brand-new boat  having this issue.

Re: the leaking CB trunk — not sure I was aware of this — I recall mention of water coming up from the cockpit sole where the centerboard pennant is cleated off (typically when there's a lot of weight in the cockpit with several crew, for example).

Bilge access is a concern of mine on the Sun Cat. I've read how some owners fabricate a cutout under the companionway steps to access it. I don't know how Com-Pac installed the manual bilge pump in the Sun Cats - assume it's somewhere under the companionway area, similar to how it was factory-installed on my 23.

The Sun Cat I've been interested in is about a 10 hour drive for me; asking price is just under $5k. Trailer may need new tires and bearings repacked/greased to be roadworthy. Details to work out if moving forward...or perhaps I should wait for a later model which is more RTG (ready to go) = sail ready and roadworthy trailer = more $, too, though.

Decisions, decisions! 😁

[bruce]

Yeah, I'm not sure why so many fail to take the simple, rather obvious step, to slide the spars and sail slugs below the hinge before folding the mast down. I'm sure in some cases it's because someone other than the owner, i.e. someone not familiar with the boat did it. I know it's happened in the yard more than once.

All of the penetrations in the transom should be checked, especially the drains. Com-Pac felt it was adequate to run solid pipe, usually PVC, through the transom without any fittings, and tab the pipe to the interior face with fiberglass. Access being what is the tabbing was often poorly done, and glass doesn't adhere well to PVC. On the exterior they would cut the pipe flush and parge the gap around the pipe with sealant, again this was not always done to the highest standard. The end of the pipe was covered with a decorative ring that didn't really help the seal. Better would have been to use proper hull fittings with flanges that sealed to the transom surface, connect to the drains with flexible tubing, and provide adequate access for maintenance. The tiller horn was similarly mounted where it exits the transom, at least it was on the PC and I believe the Sun Cat as well. All of these poorly-sealed pass throughs are subject to leaks and potential for rot in the plywood core.

The SS CB trunks were mounted with flanges on bottom of the keel using self tappings screws and sealant. Fortunately easy to inspect, but it there is a leak it can difficult to repair without pulling the trunk. I know of a couple of boats that had experienced significant galvanic corrosion at a slip in a marina where stray currents were a problem. The flange was eaten away in spite of the effort to protect the trunk with zincs. Not common, but check the flange for leaks and excessive corrosion.

Water sloshing around the trunk and squirting up the pendant is common, and usually doesn't produce a lot of water. I don't know about an overloaded Sun Cat.

[passagesfromtheheart]

Okay, Bruce -- thanks for sharing! Honestly, all of these water intrusion issues sort of are starting to make me a little nervous. It seems it is, evidently, a wide-spread issue among these models and not so much perhaps isolated to just a handful of boats, here and there.

Unfortunately, I live in an area where there is no professional assistance with respect to sailboats and very little professional assistance available for any kind of boat, for that matter. So if an issue crops up which I am unable to address, that would be distressing to me. I don't really want a "project boat." Having said that, however, I am always willing to learn and tackle projects, but if a problem exceeds my skillset, then I would really be in a pickle, and I don't want a boat laying around on my property as yard art or, more importantly, going to waste.

As much as I love the look and the idea of the Sun Cat and Sunday Cats, I'm now beginning to wonder if I need to go with a boat even more simple than these models -- remember, I am just coming from having sold my 25. I was hoping to get a small encapsulated keelboat as opposed to a strictly a centerboard or swing keel model (as those have their own set of issues), but maybe I should consider the Picnic Cat more seriously again. After all, I'm only going to be daysailing, so a cabin is not necessary (but would have been an added bonus should I have chosen to overnight on the boat).

To your knowledge, do the Picnic Cats also experience the same issues with the CB trunks and transom fittings as their big sisters (Sun Cats and Sunday Cats)? Perhaps this thread should be moved to the Picnic Cat area?

[bruce]

I'm sorry if my posts have left you with the feeling that Com-Pac catboats are problematic. They aren't, all boats have issues. My personal experience is with the PC I own, other PC owners that post on the Picnic Cat Group list that I own, a couple of Sun Cats owned by friends that I've worked on, and following many posts of Sun Cat and Horizon Cat owners on this list, the TSBB, and elsewhere since 2010. In many areas the design, and in some cases the actual parts, are shared between the Com-Pac catboats. We would have bought a Sunday Cat or Daysailer if they would have fit in our garage readily. They wouldn't, but we've been very happy with our PC, day sailing dry. You asked for things to look for. I passed on things I'd check, but overall I think Com-Pac made good boats.

Professionally, I was a conservator of historic objects, owned by museums and private collectors, for 40 years, including several boats. Many used obsolete technology, none came with owner's manuals or warranties.

[crazycarl]

My I ask why you're selling your Legacy? If it has to do with the centerboard, I owned/own two centerboard boats problem free for years.

[passagesfromtheheart]

I'm sorry if my posts have left you with the feeling that Com-Pac catboats are problematic. They aren't, all boats have issues. My personal experience is with the PC I own, other PC owners that post on the Picnic Cat Group list that I own, a couple of Sun Cats owned by friends that I've worked on, and following many posts of Sun Cat and Horizon Cat owners on this list, the TSBB, and elsewhere since 2010. In many areas the design, and in some cases the actual parts, are shared between the Com-Pac catboats. We would have bought a Sunday Cat or Daysailer if they would have fit in our garage readily. They wouldn't, but we've been very happy with our PC, day sailing dry. You asked for things to look for. I passed on things I'd check, but overall I think Com-Pac made good boats.

Professionally, I was a conservator of historic objects, owned by museums and private collectors, for 40 years, including several boats. Many used obsolete technology, none came with owner's manuals or warranties.

Hi, Bruce ~ Thanks for your kind words -- I do realize that there is no "perfect" boat and, I agree, as you say, all boats definitely have issues. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and care in answering my questions as well as helping point out things I can look for as I continue my search. Again, my thanks for your time -- it has been tremendously appreciated.

P.S. I think Com-Pac made wonderful boats, too. I have owned five in total (still own two). :-)

[passagesfromtheheart]

My I ask why you're selling your Legacy? If it has to do with the centerboard, I owned/own two centerboard boats problem free for years.

Hi, Carl ~ Only selling the Legacy to help fund the next boat. I have always been enamored by cat boats. I almost bought one a few years back, a Marshall Sanderling. I even went as far as having the boat surveyed (near Holland, MI). I decided against moving forward due to some issues the boat had.

Before I purchased my first Legacy at the end of 2020, I was actually going to purchase a Sunday Cat from Rob Voigt, a (former) Com-Pac dealer out of MI. I got cold feet about learning how to sail a gaff rig as I was just coming back into sailing fairly recently after having been away from it for almost two decades. I decided to stick with what I felt more comfortable with -- sloops -- and hence the Legacy -- and it was also a heckuva lot less $ than the Sunday Cat as well.

I am not getting any younger and would like a go with a gaff-rigged cat boat -- I prefer the cat boats by Com-Pac as I like the idea of the shoal draft keel over the lead ingots freely moving about as ballast within the bilge of traditional style cat boats. I also like the idea of the spade rudder on the Com-Pac Cat boats vs the barn door rudder that traditional cat boats have. Also, the Com-Pac cat boats have less sq footage of sail than traditional cat boats, which for me, translates to the boat likely (for me) being more manageable.

These are just a small handful of reasons why I am looking to find a new captain for my lil' Legacy and get into a cat boat.