Uh oh! I might be buying another Com-pac!

[Seachelle]

Hello, CP 23'ers!

I'm looking at a few oldie, but goodie, Com-pac 23's available for sale. I'm wondering if folks can give me a bit of CP23 advice. On that note, Ken, thank so much for recently chatting with me about your 23 — I learned a lot!

As some of you might know, I currently have a Com-pac Legacy, and I love my Legacy! But... I am having thoughts about getting a larger boat. Truth be told, initially, in my Com-pac boat search, I had tried to buy a larger Com-pac (a 19, an Eclipse, and also a 23) before I went with my Legacy. I decided against the larger boats because I was nervous about getting a 'project boat.' My Legacy was brand-new when I purchased her this past Jan., and I have been spoiled not having to involve time with many projects, to date, on the boat. The 'projects' I have had to address are easy things, e.g., buying dock lines, fenders, deck brushes, etc. and the likes to outfit my Legacy.

Over the summer, something has happened to my mindset, though. I realize that I am feeling a bit braver about tackling a potential 'project boat'....and what I mean by a 'project boat' is one 'within reason.' I am by no means an expert at anything when it comes to any kind of repair work...but, I am handy. I can sand and paint a bottom, I can do teak, and I'm pretty confident that I could figure out how to re-bed hardware that may need to be resealed. I also have no problem with putting in plenty of elbow grease when it comes to cleaning up a boat, either.

What I am afraid of, though, are things like...

Crazing
Soft decks
Delamination
Replacing bulkheads
Engine work
Replacement of thru-hulls/seacocks
Keel bolt replacement (do the 23s even have these?)
Electrical issues

These are some of the things that pop first into my mind that make my nerves rattle a bit. ;-D

I live in an area where there is little professional help available for sailboat work/repair. That said, I am, admittedly, really having to consider if it's wise for me to get an older boat; this, in case I run into a jam that I cannot address myself. I don't want a boat that is potentially just going to sit in my driveway, never getting used, because I don't have the skill sets, or access to people who do, to do a repair. Yet, getting a new CP23 is out of the question, hence the reason why I've been looking at the older models up for sale — much more affordable, but I realize the trade-off is going to be more work to bring things up to speed.

Those of you who have older CP23s — I'm looking at three early 80's models — can you offer advice on what I need to look for — meaning, are there are any 'common' sorts of issues that owners tend to have to address with these older models? One that I have found seems to be the overhead liner — 2 of the 3 had terribly chipped paint. Another common issue all three seem to have is porthole leaks.

Another question I have for those of you who have older models — did you have a survey done on your boat, or did you just take the gamble because the price was so good? This time of year is tricky with getting marine surveyors in my area (I'm in the Midwest); honestly, too, when I have reached out to marine surveyors about other boats, in the past, that I had been interested in, their replies were often that because the boat was so inexpensive, they suggested forgoing the survey. To that, though, I'd rather know what I was getting myself into.

I appreciate any thoughts and advice — it's always great to learn from others who have been down this road that I'm strongly leaning towards traveling along soon! :-)

Thank you so very much!
~ Chelle
SV Sunflower (Sunny) | 2021 Com-pac Legacy
https://sailawaywithchelle.wordpress.com/

[Renae]

Just get the 27 and get it over with. 

[Ken J]

Get the best boat you can find - it?s way more fun sailing them than restoring our ??- Compacts are very well built  so you probably won?t see much crazing - on my 23 I have very few gelcoat cracks - not an issue cosmetic - yes look for soft decks - especially around mast area - have not heard of compacts delaminating - most have outboards - if it problematic throw overboard - just kidding - and get new one relatively cheap - no keel bolts to worry about - elec issues simple - ez fix if any - what paint is chipping - should not be any paint - did not do a survey - looked over very carefully - mine was a one owner sat out in Az sun - lots of compounding and polish - again best advice I can give is be patient and find the best example you can - it will be waaaaay cheaper in the long run !!

[crazycarl]

Ken is correct, buy a boat that doesn't need much work.  Personally I like working on boats.  I have rewired, sanded, painted, and rebedded 5 sailboats to date.  Rebedding is easy, you just need someone on the inside and another person on deck.  Painting is also "easy", it just involves a lot of sanding.  My only real advice, sail during the hot months and work on the boats during the cool months.

[Bob23]

Chelle!! As a long time owner of a 1985 23 mark 2, I think I might be qualified to offer some assistance. I've owned my 23 "Koinonia" for about 15 years and I can attest to the quality of build, but a survey is up to you. If you feel more comfortable, go for it.

  My advice is more along the lines of what model you'll buy. The mark 1, has no bow pulpit and I bit more cramped interior so i'd suggest starting out with a mark 2. There may have been other changes and I'm not sure year to year what improvements have been added.

  The 23 is a curious little boat. It's a small boat that think it's a big one or a big boat that thinks it's little! It's over rigged in my opinion which is a good thing if you get stuck out in high winds. Koinonia and I have been out in 30 knot winds, felt very safe and moved along just fine under double reefed main and a half furled jib.

  That being said, and despite some comments elsewhere on the forum, she's a pretty good light air boat. I do have fairly new sails and custom built (by me) wood foiled rudder blade which did improve up wind performance and practically eliminated the weather helm that is common in the 23's.

  When sailing on friends bigger boats, I do miss not having standing headroom but any boat is a trade off and whenever I'd over night, I'd sleep out in the cockpit although there is plenty of room for 2 in the forward sleeping area.

  If you get an older one, be prepared to rebed the stanchions and bow and stern rails, using white butyl tape only. It's the bed thing to use! You are in a colder area so look for signs of freezing damage in the bilge.

  Anyway, message me if you like more info. I do love my 23 and they have been called "The prettiest girl and the dance" many times, even the Catalina and Hunter owners in my marina admit that Koinonia is a much prettier boat.

  Hope this helps, sail on!!

Bob23

 

[brackish]

Chelle, my 23 is much newer a 2005 but I'll offer some advice based on owning multiple sailboats over the years.  Any boat will require work if it is more than a couple of years old.  I currently have my 23 pulled for the three year maintenance. It has been out for two weeks and I expect another week.  Repairs include mast electrical fixing the masthead light, tightening the spreader tangs, replacing a furler extrusion and basic cleaning and tightening.  Removing most of the teak, stripping and refinishing. Cleaning, compounding, and waxing the hull above the waterline and the topside.  Pressure washing the hull below waterline, light sanding and coat of bottom paint.  Outboard work including, replacing carb, fuel filter, changing engine oil, changing gear grease, changing impeller, changing plug, general clean out of dirt dauber nests, and greasing of zerk fittings and cables.  And too many small items to list.  My point is that while none of these jobs are technically complex, i. e. you should be able to handle them all, a 23 is a lot of work to maintain, and you should be aware of that.

To my knowledge Hutchins has never used wood in the core of their boats with the possible exception of below the mast step.  You should look for a depression there which would indicate core rot.  Still not a terribly difficult repair, if you are willing to do some glass work.  But the rest of the boat is cored with a honeycomb material, so problems from freeze pops or general delamination, soft spots in the deck should not be there. That is a plus, I've done a lot of core rot repair and you probably don't want to go there.  Hutchins would be a good source for design/build changes over the years.

As mentioned there are no keel bolts, the hull/keel is monolythic and the only problem could be water in the keel that caused a problem resulting from a freeze.

The newer 23's have a combination of non woven fabric and a plastic bead board material as a head liner.  Maybe those older models you looked at also had that and it was removed and then painted.  It could be easily replaced.

There is no such thing as a sailboat that doesn't have gel coat cracks at stress points.  Best to just learn to live with them.

If you're lucky you will find a boat that doesn't have seacocks or thru hulls below the waterline.  Outboards would not require them, nor would portapotties, so the only possible reason would be for sending units for speed and depth.  Hopefully you can find one that does not have them, it is certainly not necessary to hole the boat to get those functions covered these days.

The Surveyors you talked to are probably right their fee compared to the purchase price is out of kilter.  Maybe if you knew someone locally who has a lot of sailboat experience who could go with you that would suffice.

My point is simple, these boats are a lot of work.  I suspect that despite the relative newness of my 23, I put in about two hours of work for every hour I sail .  However, I'm a little fastidious with regard to cleanliness and maintenance and with regard to upgrades for cruising comfort.  Others may get by with a better work to sail ratio.

If you haven't already done so you might want to go through this post.  Not that you would want to go through a complete refit, but it would give you some feel for what things you might run into with an older boat.  https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11972.0

[Seachelle]

Thank you so much, everyone, for all of your input and advice! I am deeply appreciative!!!  There is MUCH to consider, and that is an absolutely HUGE understatement. I will keep you all posted on what I decide to do — and I may even be personally reaching out to each of you in the hopes of sharing additional, further thoughts. This is, afterall, a BIG decision. Everything in me is telling me that I can do this and not to cave into 'what if's' — regardless, there is still is so much more to consider and that will take some time. Getting a boat like I'm talking about, well, I suppose you gotta be a person who loves the journey and just keep your eyes on the prize. I admit, the battle btwn the heart and mind is somewhat raging within, but when the dust settles, I'll know which way my compass is telling me to go.

Heartfelt gratitude to each of you!!! I love this forum!
~ Chelle

[Bob23]

Hi Chelle.
  A few notes. When I was looking for a sailboat, a friend of mine and long time sailor (and fellow Scotch lover) kept on pointing me to various boats. When I showed disinterest in every one, he got a bit perturbed at spending so much time with no results. Finally I said: "Bud, these are all great boats but they just don't still my soul!"
  When I saw my 23, she stirred my soul! And I made every mistake in the book buying her. Didn't sail her, didn't even see the sails, didn't run the motor, didn't even see the bottom, let alone get a survey and... I bought her from a lawyer!!
  I've never looked back since! She isn't that needy as far as upkeep, but I may not be as picky as Brackish. I do like my exterior teak kept in nice condition. It's called brightwork for a reason!
  I'd stay away from a diesel 23 if I were you. Sure, they sail a bit better but a good running 4 stroke outboard is hard to beat. I use a specific fuel stabilizer in my 6 hp Tohatsu Sailpro and I never have had a problem with fuel. It's a great motor, sips fuel and the extra long shaft is a must.

Happy hunting!!
Bob23

[moonlight]

Would you be interested in one of the rare 25's, instead of a 23?  PM me for details.  It's near New Orleans.

[Seachelle]

Would you be interested in one of the rare 25's, instead of a 23?  PM me for details.  It's near New Orleans.

PM sent; I'm definitely interested! Thank you! :-)

[Renae]

Chele,

You've seen this, right?

https://sailingtexas.com/202101/scompac23162.html

Renae

[Seachelle]

Chele,

You've seen this, right?

https://sailingtexas.com/202101/scompac23162.html

Renae

Renae,

I was just about to check the Sailing Texas site, but stopped by the CPYOA site first -- THANK YOU sooooo much for catching this sale ad and letting me know! If not for it being about midnight right now (literally!), I'd be contacting the seller! I will reach out, for sure, on this! She sounds like a great boat! Thank you so much, again!

- Chelle

[Seachelle]

Ah heck, ok, I couldn't resist -- despite the late (very early?!) hour of the day (after midnight), I decided to just go ahead and email the seller! :-D FINGERS CROSSED!

[Ken J]

Would want to know why interior was replaced - otherwise extremely good deal

[Seachelle]

Would want to know why interior was replaced - otherwise extremely good deal

Thank you, Ken J - I will ask about that, for sure! I haven't heard anything back from the seller, so far. I am surmising the seller might be getting a lot of traffic and is possibly sorting out those replies. There was no phone listed on the ad, otherwise, I'd call the seller. I'll keep you posted!