Whisker pole questions

[Fastdoc98]

Ok, so this is just theoretical from me since I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm wondering about using a whisker pole.  My boat came with a pole and I've been reading and watching videos on the use of a whisker pole, but on boats our size do you still need a topping lift?  All the videos are on big boats that have a pole on a track and a topping lift.  Mine has a padeye on the mast to mount it, and I could use the unused jib halyard as a topping lift for it.  Is that what you do?  And is it best practice to attach the pole to the furled jib and then deploy?  I'm trying to think ahead because I'll be doing this solo no doubt and it's a twist-lock mechanism so lengthening it would be difficult once deployed.  I'm sorry if you guys think I'm dumb, but I've never had any formal sailing lessons and hope to someday if COVID lets me.

[wes]

I love my Forespar telescoping whisker pole and regularly use it on my CP 19. It makes a big difference when sailing downwind. You do not need a topping lift. Safest way to deploy is to furl the headsail, extend the pole, attach the pole to the padeye on the mast, clip the outboard end to the sheet, then go back to the cockpit and unfurl the sail. If you have Genoa tracks, you may need to slide the car forward so there is more downward force on the sheet, which will help keep the pole snug against the sail. You will need to experiment with pole length - then mark it with a Sharpie.

Fun!

Wes

[slode]

I made up a jimmy rigged whisker pole out of an old cargo retainer bar last year.  So far I have found it useful, but only deploy if I'm going to be on the same tack for at least 30 min.  It's a bit of a pain to re-set for any shorter stints.  flying wing on wing is much easier with the pole, especially in lighter winds.  As Wes said, no need for a toping lift.  Just clip it to the jib clew or sheet and let the sheet tension hold it in place.  If you have something or someone to hold the tiller in place you can set it without furling the jib, but probably safer to furl, set, then unfurl if your solo.

[Fastdoc98]

Thanks for the replies guys, that really helps.  I'm looking forward to trying it out next time I'm able to get out.  Unfortunately may be a bit as my wife and I just brought home a couple of 3-1/2 month old rescue puppies so now there's a lot of time spent with them, but I'm hoping for a furry sailing partner someday!

[Cpy23ecl]

Just curious how much difference a whisker pole makes with the 115% jib.  I've always sailed with a 150 and felt a pole would make a big difference (but never had one) but with 100% jib it usually filled fine unless the winds were very light.

Thanks.

[slode]

My experience on the Eclipse trying to sail wing on wing has been that it's darn near impossible in light to moderate gusty winds without a pole.  When a gust hits you accelerate, and then when the wind backs down to less than a couple knots apparent the jib tends to fall out.  It doesn't always fill again without some messing around.  But with a pole out there's no issue.  With a steady wind over 8 knots you'd be fine without.  It's also helpful broad reaching in any condition, but not worth messing with unless you have crew.  I would like to try a spinnaker but don't think I'd want to deal with the rigging most of the time.   

[Fastdoc98]

There's nowhere I sail now that could justify a spinnaker; such is the life of a midwest sailor in the middle of cornfields.  There's just a little motivation to try the whisker pole but it's not very long until I'm running into the shore and having to change directions.  If I can figure out a way to get to the Great Lakes somehow I might have a better reason.

[Cpy23ecl]

My experience on the Eclipse trying to sail wing on wing has been that it's darn near impossible in light to moderate gusty winds without a pole.  When a gust hits you accelerate, and then when the wind backs down to less than a couple knots apparent the jib tends to fall out. 

That's been my experience as well with bigger boats and a 150%.  Thanks.

[Cpy23ecl]

If I can figure out a way to get to the Great Lakes somehow I might have a better reason.

I have a whisker pole on my 23 but haven't ever used it on Lk MI.  It's far easier to just sail in a direction that's more "wind friendly".  In over 30 years of sailing on Lk MI the only times I ever really wanted a whisker pole on any of my larger sailboats was when cruising on vacation and needing to go a specific direction to get to the next destination.  And even then it's been far more common to have head winds than following.  Very often I've encountered head winds heading north on Lk MI only to find the wind switched by the time I need to head back to my home port and again have head winds as I head south.

[brackish]

I sail on a long narrow lake with somewhat high banks.  It doesn't matter what the winds are reported to be they end up being channeled so they are "up lake" or "down lake".  So I end  up with a run one way and a beat the other.  I use my whisker pole with my 23 almost every time I sail.  If the winds are light I use the asymmetrical spin, but most times go wing and wing.  I've found trying to do that without a pole is almost impossible, the headsail, either size, is completely unstable without it.  I go out, set the main and determine which tack I'll be on (often not sure until I test it) then roll out the head sail and set the pole.

[Fastdoc98]

So to dig this topic up again, yesterday I was out and had my kids with me so I decided to (remembered to) pull out the pole and see how it works.  The pole is about 6-8" too long (I think) in its most compact position.  With the black plastic end clipped to the fitting on the mast, and there's one low and one high, the end of the pole extends beyond the jib clew at least 6".  So if I want to clip it to a jib sheet I have to attach it about a foot away from the clew, and that would also mean I have to pick a side before deploying, is that correct?  I didn't use it as the winds were from the north so I had a broad reach back and forth across the lake, but I found the above puzzling.  I guess I assumed it's length would be exactly the distance from the mast to the jib clew.

[brackish]

Yes you have to determine the side it will be on before setting it.  Generally you determine what tack you will be on with the mainsail then "wing" the jib out on the opposite side.  It would be odd for the pole to be too long collapsed, you realize that distance changes (lengthens) as you push the jib clew further forward and out as would be normal for a wing and wing run.  I don't know about the Eclipse but my 23 requires the pole to be extended almost fully with the 135 and about 3/4 with the 110.  Generally what I do is set the pole to the length I know it will need to be, put the end in the jib clew, push it out and connect it to the mast fitting last.

And be sure your jib sheets, both of them are slacked enough so you can get it out where it needs to be.

[slode]

I'm running the factory 115% jib and my pole is 6'10" fully extended.  It's just a cargo bar with custom ends I made so I'm living with it as it works.  It could be a few inches longer to get the sail out a bit further.   Yours may not be the ideal length to be able to set it with the sail fully furled.  But you should be able to get it in with the sail out a bit.  Or if you have the type that clips to the jibsheet it should settle in at the clew once you let the sail out and sheet in.   

Mine has a "pin" that goes through he clew and a heavy clip at the mast side.  It may not be proper but I've found it easier to set the end in the clew before attaching to the mast.  That way you aren't fighting things up on the bow or reached out over the edge. 

[Fastdoc98]

Pardon my sheets running inside the the shrouds (didn't occur to me until after I started), but I think I got it!

[wes]

Nice! Next you can unsnap that boom vang from the bottom of the mast and clip it to a stanchion base instead. Voila, you've turned it into a preventer, to avoid an accidental jibe. Now it's safe to let out the main sheet until the mainsail almost touches the spreaders.

Wes