reefing setup questions?

[brackish]

doing some work on my mainsail cover so took it home, and removed the sail and took it home also.  I have the standard jiffy reefing, cringle on the luff, reef line to drop the leech down led forward to a cleat on the boom so all can be done at the mast.  So what is the latest in innovations regarding reef tie lines for the grommets to gather the mainsail and fix it to the boom when reefed.  Anybody come up with anything better than a nylon strap fixed in the grommet.  Looking for something quicker than tying, maybe hook and loop ends.  Want to be able to have them permanently attached to the sail but be unobtrusive, light, and not flapping around in the wind when not used.  I'm currently running my mainsail loose footed even though it was not designed as such.

[canoecreek]

I worked on the reefing set up on my 23 today also ... have had the boat about a month .... haven't had it out sailing yet.
Today I installed a small cleat on the port side of the mast and attached a line that will go through the reefing tack and attach to the same cleat on the mast as the downhaul.  For the clew I had in my toolbox a block with a small u and clevis pin that could be attached where the topping lift attaches on the aft end of the boom.  I plan to attach a line that will remain attached to the reefing clew with a bowline and then the line will go through the block and to a cleat on the boom.  When reefing I will just take up on the line and recleat it.  I also placed electrical tape to mark the main halyard at the reefing position.  I didn't opt to go with using that extension on the gooseneck that I think is meant for the reefing tack because it looked like it would be hard to secure if you where trying to reef when underway.  I want to run both the halyard aft and a line to secure the reefing tack aft to the cockpit.  Unfortunately I just replaced the halyards and forgot that I wanted to run them aft ... and cut them to short to do it now!  For the neat tie up of the other reefing points ... don't have a great idea ... on my other boat just went with lines with stopper knots outside the reefing points that could be tied if needed.  ... probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do at least one to keep the foot from blowing out when underway. Let me know if you come up with an idea for tying the other reefing points!

[bruce]

Brackish, here's some bungee ties I made up last March.
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=11316.0

They did well in tests, and the couple of times I reefed last season they worked as expected. 3/16" may be enough, but they'll never be unobtrusive. I sail with mine in place all the time, but they aren't tied in, and just rely on the ball and loop to hold them in the grommets. Easy to install and remove. You could leave them in a locker until you reef, or if you expect to need to that day.

[brackish]

I've avoided shock cord options for reasons that probably are not reasonable.  Always wanted a tie that would not stretch.  But in this case there is no real tension on the things, they just hold the gather together and running loose footed I don't have to go around the boom unless I choose to if it seems to work better.  May experiment with something like you've done.

Truth is, nine times out of ten, I look at the weather and reef at the dock before I leave.  I know this boat well enough to sense how much main to carry for good balance, limited weather helm and comfortable degree of heel with no real speed penalty.  But still would like to make the process in open water easier, quicker, and safer when it has to be done.  My contract with the Admiral when single handling is that I wear an auto inflate PFD in warm water weather, and snap a tether to the D-ring when the water is cold.  Want to spend as little time as possible up and around.

[bruce]

I like soft shackles, in Dynema or other single braid, and to get the minimal strength you'd need they could be unobtrusive. Handling fine stuff when bouncing around is another issue.

Here's a super short 1/4" Dynema shackle I use at the luff cringle to make it easier for hooking the reef horn. I wanted the loop to be big enough to grab easily, and not fall out of the cringle. For reef ties, 1/4" Dynema would be obviously be overkill, so some means of the keeping the shackle in the grommet would be useful. Maybe 5/32", for handling, just a few inches long so once the diamond knot was pushed through the loop the spring back from the sail cloth, and stiffness in the shackle itself, would tighten the loop enough. No need to make the loop too small.

Just an idea. I know you'll come up with something great!

[Gerry]

Another great tip, Bruce.  I love this forum.

[brackish]

The soft shackle in the reef cringle is a good idea.  I've been going direct and often have a hard time bending that sail edge to get it over the horn and it will sometimes pop off when I retension the main.

I've been using climbing loops as soft shackles for some situations.  Very strong, light and often less expensive than the marine version.  Set up my asymmetrical with those to attach the turning blocks to the aft cleats and a longer loop as an adjustable tack line.  May try to adapt one as a reef tack.

[bruce]

Yah, first time I hooked the luff cringle on the horn I twisted the luff for some reason and punched a hole through three layers of sail.

I'll have to get some climber's slings to play with. My sewing skills aren't great. I do like splicing single braids, but have been too lazy to get proficient with double braids.

[wes]

Bruce - that's brilliant! Good karma to you. I assume you don't leave your Dyneema gizmo in the cringle all the time, but just put it in when you're reefing?

Also can you say more about the "diamond knot." I'm not familiar with that one.

Wes

[bruce]

I do leave it in, primarily because it's one less thing to look for if we need to reef. It hasn't snagged on anything, yet. It's tight to the mast, where there is some turbulence anyway, so I rationalize that it's less a drag than the 1/4" bungee ties I have hanging from the intermediate reefing grommets. If I ever found myself in full race mode, they'd be easy to take in.

The diamond knot is a stopper knot. Here's my favorite soft shackle site, with several discussions of the diamond knot. My favorite general shackle is the Better Soft Shackle.
https://l-36.com/soft_shackles.php?menu=4

For my reefing loop, I just laid out the circle, did a Brummel lock, and tied the diamond knot. The tails seem wasteful, but they make it much easier to tie the knot, and then tighten it well. I put the tails in a vice and pass a long rod through the loop, and lever the knot as tight as I can. Tying the diamond knot is confusing at first, but it isn't too bad. Getting the excess slack out of the knot and shaping it, and then tightening it well, is the hardest part. If I'm confident the knot is tight, I'll trim the tails close and melt/fair them in with a soldering iron.

[Salty19]

I use soft shackles with 1" plastic ball ends.  Just leave them in the reefing cringle so they are ready for use. Used 1/4" 3 strand and spliced a loop so the ball would just slip through with the line wrapped tightly 'round the boom. The splice is thick enough where the shackle won't slip out through the cringle..you have to force it on/off.

The diamond knot looks interesting...definitely more than one way to make reefing easier.

At the tack, I use short snap shackle through the tack grommet.  The shackle is pinned down to a slug that slides in the boom track to keep it down, and the slug is attached to a 3:1 outhaul with cam cleat. To reef, I just loosen the outhaul, unsnap the tack and re-snap at the new reefed tack.  Then retighten outhaul.    I know you've seen pics of these before Brackish...I will have to dig them up for everyone else.   

[bruce]

I'd like to see your photos of your set up Salty, if you get a chance.

[Salty19]

Here you go, Bruce.  The carabiner is the topping lift (which has been changed--this was too hard to use).

[bruce]

Thanks, Salty. I should put a cam cleat on our boom outhaul, I don't play with it enough. 2:1 would be plenty for us.