Toe rails

[DaveG405]

Newbie here.  Just downsized to a 2005 Sun Cat.  I like it very much overall, but I find the nonskid deck surfaces to be quite slippery, and I find myself missing the toe rails I had on my last boat, especially since the SC has neither lifelines nor a bow rail.  I know room is limited on deck, but has anyone considered, or successfully accomplished, installation of toe rails on a Sun Cat?

[Zephyros]

My non-skid is not slippery on my 2007. It sounds more like the previous owner waxed the non-skid or treated it with something like Star Brite Non-Skid cleaner, which has PTFE and will be slippery if not rinsed off right after application.

Before going to toerails try stripping your non-skid with dawn dishwashing soap (it removes wax so watch your other areas on the boat you don't want the wax removed) or try a hull cleaner which generally will strip wax, but they differ so check first.

[bruce]

I agree with Tom. I addition to detergents, any nonpolar solvent, such as naphtha or mineral spirits, will remove wax safely. Some people use acetone, but it is not a good dewaxer. Check the cleanliness by splashing water on the cleaned surface, if it beads up there's still wax or oil on there.

If the molded nonskid is still too slippery, I'd try adhesive-backed nonskid tape in critical areas long before I'd try to install a toerail. Easily trimmed so you can lay it out in an acceptable pattern, and it comes in some colors. Some tapes may even be too aggressive. If after a couple of seasons it begins to lift, remove it with nonpolar solvents, and maybe a little heat, and reinstall. No potential for leaks.

[DaveG405]

Thanks, guys.  My Plan A has been to try cleaning the nonskid first, but I was curious about short toe rails as a possible Plan B.  I've used the Star Brite cleaner for several years, followed by Woody Wax, and been happy with the results,  but those boats (Beneteau and Pearson) had a finer, sharper nonskid pattern than is on my SC.  What do other SC sailors use?

[Maritimer67]

I have been a fervent user of the Woody Wax Non Skid Deck Wax, including previously on my old 1986 Krogen Manatee trawler.  Works great and helps to keep it clean as well.

[Kermit]

This is sort of a nonskid question. Still becoming acquainted with my "new" Sun Cat. I've been focusing on the hull, a blue one which is what I was looking for but there was a bit of oxidation to deal with. Having finished that, I'm turning to the deck which has weathered white. When it's wet, it's the light tan I see in the pictures. I guess I could use a buffing compound like I did on the hull but getting all the corners and down into the nonskid seems like an awful job. I used a power washer on the deck and it's pretty clean. My next step is Star Brite deck cleaner. Do you think the Woody Wax would bring back the color?

[Zephyros]

Do you think the Woody Wax would bring back the color?

Woody Wax is just a temporary wax, 3 - 6 weeks duration from what I've read.

To bring back the color you want to use one of these Star Brite products, always start with the lowest grit compound (in the cleaner waxes) you can, that way if the light works, your done, if you have some badly oxidized areas step up to the heavy and then finish with the light to take out a micro scratches.

Star Brite Premium Cleaner Wax (for Light to Medium Oxidation)
Star Brite Premium One Step Heavy Duty Cleaner Wax (for Heavy Oxidation)

The name Wax is a misnomer, Star Brite is a long lasting Polymer based product with PTEF.

A note of caution, Woody Wax applied to heavy WILL make your Non-Skid slippery, defeating the purpose of Non-Skid. Likewise, Star Brite Deck Cleaner for Non-Skid, leaves a PTFE coating on the Non-Skid for protectant but if you do not flush is off with a hose after application, it will be Slippery (this according to my conversation with the Star Brite Tech Customer Service guys).

[Joseph]

A slippery deck may also be the result of slippery soles. I have favoured Timberland classic with deck soles, but have also found that after a couple of seasons their soles tend to get harder and shinier, loosing their grip on deck. A new pair of sailing shoes has always made a big difference.

As for toe rails, there is only one instance in which I have felt the need for some additional support at the toe rail: when stepping back into the cockpit after having stepped forward to the mast or the anchor. However, stepping on the horn cleat at mid-beam (a mid-beam cleat is strongly recommended for docking single-handed) offers a good grip to the outside foot and a secure step back into the cockpit.

J.

[DaveG405]

Thanks for the tip, Joseph.  I already ordered a midship cleat, but I've been a bit uncertain about exactly where I wanted to locate it.  I think considering it a substitute for a toe rail will be the main consideration now.  As you said, getting back into the cockpit after going forward is a bit of a chore. 

As for my original concerns, washing the nonskid with Dawn and then treating it with Woody Wax did make a substantial difference.  Much less slippery.  I think Zephyros is correct, tho, in noting that the Woody Wax needs occasional renewal.

[Joseph]

Dave,

A mid-chip cleat should be placed at the point from which the boat can be pulled sideways while remaining parallel to the dock. This of course depends on the way the hull (and rudder and certerboard) resists the sideway pull. But a good approximation can be obtained by balancing on a pencil a sideway carboard picture of the hull underwater. In Sassy the midship cleat was placed (by the Hutchins) slightly staggered aft with respect to the porthole.

J.

[DanM]

Yes. I just took a look at pictures of my SunCat, which came with factory-installed midship cleats. The forward tip of the cleat is below the aft end of the porthole.

[DaveG405]

About three weeks ago I spoke with Matthew at Hutchins, and he recommended centering the cleat about half way between the aft end of the port and the aft end of the coach roof.  I haven't gotten that done yet, but it sounds pretty close to what you're suggesting.  I'll have to do a little experimenting in the form of climbing back and forth between the cockpit and roof, but I can't imagine I'll end up more than an inch or two from the factory position. 

As always, thanks for the quick responses and good advice.  It's nice having such great access to help and experience.

[bruce]

I use extra cleats for fenders. I have one at the shrouds and one at maximum beam, and with the stern cleat that gives me good protection. The point is there isn't a limit. I never use the bow cleat for tying up to the dock, but it's there if I need it otherwise. No issues with fouling the sheet.