long distance sailing

[carob]

Do you know of anyone who has sailed a CP23 a long distance(like not coastal)?  How bad of an idea would it be to sail a 23 through the caribbean?  What might you have to do to prepare the boat for that task... other then buy a more suitable boat!  Or should it be just totally out of the question?

[Craig Weis]

Well I don't know about the C-P 23 but a fellow sailed a West Potter 19 from Calf to Hawaii. Had the boat shipped back to the states....story in Small Craft Adviser does that count? skip

[carob]

thanks Skip... i guess a person can attempt/do anything they want too if they have the kahonas, or lack of sense or just plane ole passion... like where failure is not an option.  I've read people talk about bulkheads and the assembly of one being tabbed in(I don't know of anyother way to describe it), wouold stuff like that be and issue?  I would guess that heavier rigging would be needed.. what  do you think would have to be done ?  There seems to be many knowledgable people out there, you being one.

[Craig Weis]

Well Carob, Short of purchasing a Flicka, I have given some thought to sailing the C-P 19 on a long over water trip.

Now a long trip over the course of several months, say 66 days x 24 hours = 1,584 hours at 2.7 knots avg [may be]= 4,276.8...Hummmmmm some dream. Lets say that 0.72% of this dream is realized, allowing for a Port-O-Call now and then. So we sail about 3,079 km.

The work of Matthew Fontaine Maury; Tracks In The Sea: and the Mapping of the Oceans would have us bobbing about in storms about every 17 days. Or 3 may be 4 storms where at least the waves would be coming on board and swamping the cockpit while taxing the scupper system. Getting your pipes cleaned...if you will...OK?

One the only structural changes I would make to the Com-Pac 19 are few. I don't think adding or tabbing bulkheads [what bulkheads?] will do much for the hull in terms of strength. The 2000 lb boat is a 'bobber' and not a 'plower'. So she ought to climb up and over the waves vs. smashing through them. The boat will take many more times the ponding and abuse as the crew will.

Lash your body into the cockpit. You will be cold, wet, miserable. Seal the cockpit settees closed.
Put some 'beef' into the drop board/slider companion way and build it as a near water tight door.
My thinking is, " Keep the water out it won't sink." You may want to scuttle her later though.
And seal/protect the front hatch and anchor pipe.
A self steering rig that uses no electricity would be nice as would my barometer. Navigation tools.
I'd leave the standing rigging and chain plates alone as well as the sheet control lines and attachment points.
Nothing would be loose and as much stores as possible packed up front. Keep the stern light.
I'd trust my IdaSail rudder but carry the factory aluminum blade too.
I'd re-learn the art of 'Heaving Too' for naps and when 'nature calls'. No wait!...just let her hang out.
I would have heavier duty sails made, and have spares. Spare battery, spare other stuff.
I'd forget the outboard. Can't carry enough gas anyway.
And I'd sail with the mind set that if I got into trouble, I'm gonna die! No one is coming to save me.

I'd better shut up. This is starting to sound like too much fun. Skip.

[carob]

Thanks Skip... yaa it does sound like fun.  It is interesting, when Magelain(my spelling is just awful, and I'm a teacher) was recruiting sailors for his epic journey his first ad read, "looking for adventure, seeing beautiful places, meeting new people, come sign up"... he did not get any takers.  So he changed his advertizing and said," this will be a dangerous journey, you might not make it home, this will be important for your country, etc", he had more than enough sign up for the trip.  I have paraphased this of course, however you get the idea.... what is that inside of us that we long for something primal or risky or whatever... seems like we have, in our hearts, this need to overcome great life threatening ordeals.  Interesting.....!

[CaptK]

Carob -

A fella named John Vigor wrote a book titled something like "20 Small Boats to Take You Anywhere", you might want to find a copy of that and read what it is that he looked for in determining which boats to include in his list. It's a good book. My boat isn't in there, but 2 of her sisters are.

Having owned a CP23, I think that it would be fine for a voyage through the Carribean, with some fixing up beforehand. The biggest thing I'd beef up would be the hull/deck joint - I'd glass that sucker over good and solid on the inside, so it would be bulletproof. My 23 also had a pretty loose fitting forward hatch - I would do some work there, either making it better, or replacing it with a serious store-bought hatch. I'd make the cockpit drains a lot larger, so water could get out fast if/when it came in. A seahood for the companionway sliding hatch, and some stout dropboards, like Skip suggested. A good, high-volume manual bilge pump, maybe even 2 - one in the cockpit, one belowdecks.

As far as bulkhead tabbing, my 23 was only tabbed on one side. I would go ahead and tab the other side of everything - that would stiffen and strengthen the hull immensely.

Like Skip said, I think that overall the boat and rigging would be plenty tough enough for the trip. I did replace my spreader bases with a slightly larger set that fastened more securely to the mast - that would be recommended, too.

Check out sailFar.net - there are a lot of folks there who want to do/have done long distance trips in their 'small' boats of all sorts. Lots of relevant information about this sport of thing there.

[carob]

CaptK

I checked out sailFar.com...  great site... thanks for the tip and your input on a long distance sail in a 23.  Thinking about this kinda stuff... here I am just about 65.... I still haven't done it... still burns inside and has been for about 20 years... the window of oppertunity(sp) is getting smaller as I'm getting older, still want to know "do I have it in me?"... I believe this question is asked by every man and does demand an answer.  somneone once said and I paraphase, " the tragedy of life is not a man living and dieing, it is dieing while living", or something like that.  I appreciate web sites like this hearing what people are doing and helping others find the way.

[pelican]

We have a C23 with a gentleman maybe in his late 30s come to our area every other year or so. He stays for a few days and moves on. He lives on his boat year round and goes when and where he feels like it.

I wish I had a photo to post because this gentleman is far from your typical sailor. The boat cabin is stuffed with treasures (junk) gathered from many trips to the Bahamas and points south. There is only room for him to sit and not room to lay down and sleep. Apparently he sleeps sitting up or on deck.

To his credit, he is a very happy gent and seems to enjoy the life of travel he chose for himself. He never runs out of stories to tell and could probably write a very interesting book. 

Now, I have worked a lifetime around the water in the Florida sun so my skin is a  little toasty, but this gentleman looks like he could burst into flames any second ,even on a cold day.

As everyone pointed out, you can sail long distances in a small boat, but you  sacrifice some creature comforts. We get yearly visits from a middle age couple in a CP27 and they do some extensive sailing. They seem to have it togeather well. They lash a couple of fold up bikes to the deck and ride them to work when the lack of money forces them to pull into port for a while. They sailed to Florida from California and now they live on the boat. They work long enough to provide their needs and then sail on.

We are blessed to have many interesting and different types of souls living their dreams and stopping for a winter lay over in our area. They come in boats of all types and sizes.

Smooth Sailing

Terry

[carob]

It's sounding like setting up a CP23 really does involve alot of time setting up.  I am seriously thinking of focusing on the CP19... easier towing... faster setup time...etc.  However less room, oh well, most of the time it is only my wife and myself, and really most of the time it is myself solo.  I read what Skip said about taking his CP19 on a long distance sail and what changes he would do with his boat, and I'm thinking if one person can do it another could also.  I read John Vigor's book "20 Small Boats You Can Sail Anywhere" and there was a Cal 20... is there that much difference in a Cal20 and a CP19 as far as ability to"make it"?  I'm thinking, if you are water-tight, you'll bob around out there until the storm passes... what do you think?

[K3v1n]

Here is a story of a guy who sailed to the Bahamas in a Potter 19.

http://potter-yachters.org/stories/bahamas/index.html

-Kevin

[carob]

thanks Skip... great account!!  I sure would not do it with so many aboard.  The dog.. OK, but not the others.  Skip, what com-pac do you have(size)?  Would you do something like that?  I still would like to do something like that... it still nags at me.  I'd like to do it in a 23 but I really am convinced that at 19 better fits my "doings"... it's easy trailerability, cost, towing, maintenance, etc.  Would you do it in a CP19?  Do you think the CP19 would be better choice then a Potter19?   Or is there a better choice then either a CP19 or a Potter 19.  What would you do to get the boat ready for such a task?

[carob]

oops... sorry Gypsy Soul, you're not Skip... thanks for the lead on that story about the guy sailing a Potter19 to the Bahamas.

[K3v1n]

In the Trailer Sailor Handbook' Burgess sails his Com-Pac 16 through the Keys and onto the Marquesas. I'd like to try that one day in my 19, not sure about the Bahamas, I plan/hope to have a larger boat when the time comes for that. But I do believe the 19 and for sure the 23 would be more stable than the Potter for such a trip.


-Kevin

[steve brown]

I read somewhere that the Com-Pac 19 was one of the most stable of all small boats, second only to the Cape Dory Typhoon. I think it may have been an article in Small Craft Advisor. Steve

[JohnS]

I've no doubt that the CP19 is a sturdy and seaworthy little vessel that could weather a gale at sea, properly battened down. You'd have to be sure of plenty of searoom because the CP19 will make a great deal of way downwind when hove-to or lying ahull and trying to claw off a lee shore would be tricky in a boat that doesn't point too well or have a powerful motor.
The problem with a trip like US East Coast to Bahamas is that it's all up wind and the correct strategy relies on a reliable motor. Crossing the Gulf Stream is best acomplished by waiting for the approach of a Norther and dashing across in the lull that always precedes it. Then you have to get the anchor down at Gun Cay or Bimini and wait out the front before crossing the Bank. I wonder how suitable a small outboard is for such a trip? I'm thinking about reliabilty because to be caught in the Stream with a Norther coming through is too awful to contemplate!
Last time we went that way we met a single hander (actually he had a dog with him, so I guess technically he had a crew!) in a small boat with an outboard so I know it's possible, but I'd be wary of attempting it myself.
The run back would be a pleasure! I bet you could do the whole thing without ever using the motor. Got to get there first though.