Wish List for a New Com-Pac 23 Diesel

[Potcake boy]

Actually, get the ST2000 for a few dollars more. Have used a ST1000 for many years on many boats and when I got the ST2000 for my pilot house I was quite pleasantly surprised at how much better it behaved. Since I steer from the inside wheel, I got a remote control fro Madmen Electronics. It saves me having to move to the cockpit every time I need a course correction, but if you steer by the tiller and spend your time underway in the cockpit then it wouldn't serve as much purpose.

I second the suggestion to get your sails from National Sails, and agree that a full batten loose footed main will allow much better sail shape control. Of course you will need something to control leech tension, whether it be a kicker or traditional vang. I like the simplicity of a basic sail plan with 110 jib on a furler and a cruising spinnaker or what is often called a Gennaker for light air. A cruising spinnaker will hold the air better down wind than a bent on head sail like a 150. A big headsail will need earlier reefing and most don't hold shape very well on a furler. Often times when the wind is up you can reef the main and keep a full 110 for a well balanced boat. Big sails I have found to make the boat squirrely in heavy gusty conditions. I also have found the 110 to go to weather better than a big headsail. Especially if the majority of your sailing is done on a lake, you don't want run out of lake too fast anyway. But each to his own, and fortunately we have all the choices.

[Gus]

I agree with the ST-2000+, since money isn't a problem, might as well go with it. I'd try to get the boat builder to install all the wiring for me if they have that option.

Also, I'd go with the perched transom seats. I used to sit on top of my transom rail while sailing, and I love it.

There's plenty of teak inside the boat to take care of. I never had a boat with so much teak inside, and I get the idea of constantly sanding and varnishing might get a bit old too quick.

[brackish]

There's plenty of teak inside the boat to take care of. I never had a boat with so much teak inside, and I get the idea of constantly sanding and varnishing might get a bit old too quick.

LOL, my 2005 23IV had all the teak finished, inside and out, with Waterlox Original when it was new.  The interior teak has never been touched since then and still looks brand new. On the other hand, the exterior has been through the full gambit of options including Bristol three times, left natural with oil, Semco (I didn't like the look, might as well have plasteak) and Petit Sea Gold.  So four different finish schedules, and my conclusion is the sun wins every time.

[Zappple]

Here is my latest list of questions for Gerry Hutchins at Com-Pac.  Thanks again for the help!

1.  Can Mack Sails make a drifter for me?  Other owners have used a 170% drifter of 1.5 ounce nylon.  If Mack Sails can design and make it, then they should be able to give you advice about placement of pad-eyes for that.

2. I have changed my mind about roller furling.  Most owners felt that the roller furling was a must, especially if single handing in shifting weather.   I spoke with an owner who replaced his CDI unit with a Harken unit and he is much happier with that.  He said it is much easier to change out the headsail with the Harken unit.  The unit is Harken 00AL.  Can you include the Harken unit in the quote?

3. I have also changed my mind about the performance sails from Mack Sails.  I would like to include those in the quote after all.  Your email about the sails confused me a little, though.  I believe the current quote is for a roller furling radial cut performance 150% genoa and main.  And the main is loose footed?  Is that correct?  I will want Radial Dacron, not a laminate material.  I will also want a cringle for a cunningham.  Please delete the hanked-on 155% from the quote.  I have heard from some owners that they have more success with a 110% than a 150% in most conditions, then switch to the 170% drifter in light air.  Can you ask Mack Sails for their opinion which would make sense as my "workhorse" headsail on a lake?  Would a 110% jib plus a 170% drifter be the correct combination for me?

4. I would like to include the tiller clutch.

5. Can you recommend a solar panel to keep the batteries topped up?  What location works best?  The companionway top?

5. Please remove the halyard winch from the quote.  I assume that this is located on the mast and I am worried that I will foul the jib sheets.

6. I would like a quote for the Raymarine Axiom 7 chart plotter permanently flush mounted next to the Raymarine i50.

7.  Does the system include a battery power monitor/voltmeter?

8. I would like a flag holder for a US flag ensign at the stern.

9. I would like to switch to the 3 inch Marinco vent.  I spoke with someone who bought the 4 inch and decided it was much too large for the boat, and he returned it for the 3 inch.

10. The quote includes LED dome lights.  I would like for ALL of the lights (nav lights, steaming light, etc) to be LED.  Given the announcement from the US Coast Guard recently, can you make sure that the LED lights will not interfere with the VHF?
http://www.solidstatelighting.net/u-s-coast-guard-warns-of-potential-communication-interference-caused-by-led-lighting/

11. I believe the diesel is located under the companionway where most people put their fridge.  Where is the best place to put a fridge on the 23 Diesel?  Can you recommend a specific model?

12.  I have changed my mind about the shore power and battery charger.  I would like to include those in the quote.

13.  I have decided to forgo any modifications for a traveler or rigid vang.  After speaking with several owners, it sounds like too much hassle for minimal gain, and I think the performance sails will give me much more improvement than a traveler/rigid vang combo.  I do want a regular vang and cunningham. Please include that in the quote.   Here are the Harken part numbers from their website:

4:1 Fiddle
The basic 4:1 fiddle block vang is commonly used on dinghies and small keelboats.
2655   
2658   

4:1 Cascaded Cunningham
This simple 4:1 system leads aft to the cockpit. A favorite on small keelboats and daysailers.
2146
349
350
470

I've really learned a lot asking other owners my questions, and it is always easier to change the boat on paper than to change it once it is built, so I really appreciated the help from the members of the Owner's Association.

[Potcake boy]

1. I've had sails made by Mack, and they are a very good group to deal with. They also have a rigging shop so would be knowledgeable about the appropriate rigging.  However, I believe Dirk at National sails has the depth of knowledge and experience to provide the same quality system, and at a lower price. If it matters to you, Mack makes their sails in Stuart Fla. as opposed to National Sails (which is an arm of Rolly Tasker - Australia) which are built in the Tasker sail loft in Vietnam. I purchased sails for my Corsair 24 trimaran from Mack, but am very happy with the sails for my Com-Pacs from National Sails. Either shop will make sails to your specification. I have found the best combination of sails for cruising is a basic 110 and good main along with a down wind sail of Nylon. A more recent development for spinnakers are specialty furlers, but I would think their application is best suited to boats that use a extended sprit so as to avoid fowling the head stay. I have been using a Shaw Chute Scoop since my early days and have had no problem. I think one thing you should consider is whether or not you would be leaving the cockpit for sail handling, but when you are flying your spinnaker the wind is light and you are sailing off the wind so there shouldn't be heavy motion on deck.

5. I have a 50 watt panel on my stern rail. It is more than adequate to keep the batteries up during idle periods, a 20 watt should be more than enough for that purpose and you could use one of those flexible jobs that could be left in a non-shaded area and put away when underway. Relating as well to your number 11, I use a Engel 35 quart refrigerator and stow it under the V-berth. It fits perfectly but I am not sure if the configuration of the V-berth is the same on the standard model 23. I have a group 31 Master Volt as house battery and my system of maintaining is simple enough, during the day while sailing the solar handles most of the load including the fridge. At the end of the day when reverting to motor I turn the fridge all the way to freeze to drop the temperature. Over night I turn the fridge off to conserve power but also because the filler cushion is in place and blocks airflow to the refrigerator unit, not to mention having the fridge cycle right under your ear while sleeping. In the morning I do the same running the fridge low while motoring to give it a head start for the day. This practice has served me well , and I've never lost any perishables. I use the built in cooler for the beer and ice. A couple of gallon jugs of frozen water at the bottom will help keep the ice and provide extra potable water when thawed. Again however I'm not sure how the cooler configuration of my boat compares to the standard model.

9. I am confused about the response you received in regard to the size of the deck vent. I installed the Marinco 4" on my fore deck, which required making the hole slightly larger. I purchased a second 3" for the head because of the limited space on the cabin top, but returned it when I discovered the cover for the 3" and 4" are the same size. So if cover size is an issue then there would be no advantage to the 3" model. If mounting hole size is the issue then Hutchins can easily provide the proper size hole. The 4" has been fine on the fore deck.

P.S. IMHO I agree with the comments about hull color. The gelcoat colors are nice but having had experience with several - never again. Not only are scratches quite visible, but the dulling (oxidation) is a constant battle unless your hull is protected from the sun most of the time. White dulls as well, but since the oxidation is white then it's not so apparent. If I were to have a colored hull, I'd have it painted, which most builders will not do. It is far more expensive from a production standpoint than adding pigment to the gel which is part of the molding process. Today's marine paints are very resistant to the effects of ultraviolet light and look great year after year with no polishing or buffing, but having a boat professionally painted is quite expensive.

[Aldebaran_III]

I agree fully with the last comment about hull color. I bought a brand new Horizon Cat and she looked gorgeous with the Navy Blue gelcoat.
We live in a high UV area and after only 3 years it was a constant round of machine buffing with 3M Finesse-It to bring back the faded and chalky gelcoat ,despite having used waxes with UV filtration. Now at 4 years plus the only way out is to spray paint the hull.

In hindsight I should have had her painted from new. It's easy and quick to do before all the fittings go on. I would use a good quality automotive system like Glasurit but still Navy Blue. Think of all the stuff cars have to endure and you don't see them fading these days.

I should have known better really. About 30 years ago I bought a brand new Tayana 37 in black gelcoat. She looked fantastic with the shiny black hull. But only 4 years on the hull was so chalky that I had her resprayed in black with the Glasurit auto paint. I kept the boat another 11 years and she still looked great, no sign of fading, when I sold her. I still see the boat around, and even now the paint looks good.

Regarding the other stuff, I would say go easy with accessories where you can. A light boat is a fast boat.

[Potcake boy]

One last item of note if you plan to handle the sails from the cockpit. I installed a Tides Marine Strong Track. It was easy and the slides required no modification to install to the existing web loops. If you are going with full battens then the sail maker should install the batten end slides for you (makes a case for having your sails made by Mack). I have a lightweight line secured to the top slide and routed to the cockpit. The retriever line makes it super simple to bring the main completely down and secured. If you have lazy jacks, the full battens will lay right down on top of the boom. These are some of the things I have done to make my pilot house a simple to sail cruising boat. It all works very well and minimizes my need to go forward especially in a heavy sea state.

Most importantly however is: just get it built and go sailing. If you're waiting till everything is perfect then maybe go sailing with someone else in the mean time.

[brackish]

On my 23 the halyard winch is right behind the line clutch bundle where both the main halyard and, in my case, the topping lift are located.  I also use it for the furler line led forward.  A must have winch, in my opinion.

Agree on the paint, love the dark boats, but with gelcoat very difficult to keep up for long.  I painted three boats dark, two with Imron, the third with perfection plus.  The longevity with catalyzed polyurethane is astounding.

[Gus]

9. I am confused about the response you received in regard to the size of the deck vent. I installed the Marinco 4" on my fore deck, which required making the hole slightly larger. I purchased a second 3" for the head because of the limited space on the cabin top, but returned it when I discovered the cover for the 3" and 4" are the same size. So if cover size is an issue then there would be no advantage to the 3" model. If mounting hole size is the issue then Hutchins can easily provide the proper size hole. The 4" has been fine on the fore deck.

I bough the 4 inch Marinco, and I though it was way too big. The 3 inch is 1 inch smaller in diameter, but the height is the same as the 4 inch. Maybe I'll take another look to see if the 4 inch Marinco looks good. The boat came with a 3 inch vent.

[Bilge Rat]

Do compacs have an issue with the dark colored hulls oxidizing quicker than other boat manufacturers' colored hulls? I have the dark green and wish I had white!

[Potcake boy]

BR - can't think of any reason that Com-Pacs should be any worse for fading than any other boat builder. Pretty sure there are a limited number of suppliers for the resins and pigment used. Some of the top builders are now finishing their boats with Imron, which requires no maintenance other than washing, and stays beautiful for many many years. Imron however is difficult to repair if you scratch it so post production damage could be a real PIA for the builder and dealer.

Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but someone said a friend of his that rejuvenates old boats and resells them uses muratic  acid to remove the oxidation and leaves the gel coat looking like new. Sounds to good to be true, but if anyone has an old hull that is very badly oxidized, might be worth a try.

[Potcake boy]

Gus - are you referring to the vent size or the deck cutout size? 

I bough the 4 inch Marinco, and I though it was way too big. The 3 inch is 1 inch smaller in diameter, but the height is the same as the 4 inch. Maybe I'll take another look to see if the 4 inch  Marinco looks good. The boat came with a 3 inch vent.

The 4" vent fits fine on the fore-deck, and will accommodate the deck camber.

[Gus]

Gus - are you referring to the vent size or the deck cutout size? 

I bough the 4 inch Marinco, and I though it was way too big. The 3 inch is 1 inch smaller in diameter, but the height is the same as the 4 inch. Maybe I'll take another look to see if the 4 inch  Marinco looks good. The boat came with a 3 inch vent.

The 4" vent fits fine on the fore-deck, and will accommodate the deck camber.

The 3 inch cutout is one inch smaller in overall diameter, but same height. I'll give it another try, I took it out of the box and I though it was too big for the foredeck camber.

Thanks!

[Bilge Rat]

Ron,
I had not heard of muratic acid - The only way I have found to keep the oxidation at bay on my dark green hull is a lot of old fashioned elbow grease with the 3M Marine Restorer and Wax applied via an orbital buffer. I find that it needs to be done at least annually to keep the oxidation at bay.  I am resigned to just letting the oxidation slowly take over and maybe do it every couple of years.  Oh well, I do envy those of you with the white hulls.

BR

[Potcake boy]

BR - in response to your last post, I did some investigating and determined the following: There are less caustic forms of acid that are just as effective and less harmful to you and/or other than plastic components typically found on or around boats i.e. fittings and trailer. Based on opinions expressed it seems that acid is only effective on stains. Not a scientific opinion but one expressed by several is that dullness is due to pitting of the gel coat by the sun's UV and must be corrected by mechanical means - back to good old elbow grease. I had a Suncat with a blue hull which was pretty dull when I acquired it. I used the wet sanding approach and got an improvement only after a lot of work. I was concerned that starting out with an abrasive too great would remove the colored gel coat so I was very restrained. I think I started with something like 150 and progressed through 1500 or 2000. Problem is that the heavier the initial grit the more you have to sand with the finer grit to remove the scratches of the heavier grit. Inversely if you start with a very fine grit you may not effectively remove the bulk of the oxidation and simply put a shine on the chalkiness. I got the hull looking decent, but not as I would have wanted. The process was laborious, messy, and time consuming. So unless there is some miracle in a bottle then I am resolved to either stick with a white hull, or paint for any other color.

The following statement for amusement only:
Wasn't it nice when boats were made of wood and the function of paint was more important than the cosmetics? The oyster-men of the Chesapeake would typically use paint from Sears or the hardware store for their boats. Is our quest for beautiful boats a product of social progress or just boat show marketing. I eventually came to settle with the solution for my Suncat was that I couldn't see the hull when sailing and that if it disturbed others it wasn't my problem. Just a philosophical way to skin the cat.