Gaff Gooseneck Damage

[Jim in TC]

If my photo attached, you will see significant damage to both the universal joints on the gaff and loss of integrity of the slide. I am pretty sure this was caused by the gaff gooseneck being "welded" tight by corrosion and long storage. The boat, which is new to us, was, according to the previous owner, in storage for two years but I am thinking it was at least some years more than that. Raising sail was really difficult, and we started to notice some stress in the hardware from the first time we rigged the boat (all spars and mast were off the boat for storage) but did not really see that the goosenck was not 'springing out' at all until I got at the whole set of hardware with a penetrating oil.

I post this to 1) see if there is some agreement that my theory on the cause makes sense and 2) as a cautionary tale about this fitting - and maybe the boom gooseneck too - for a boat that is out of service for some time.

Happily, the factory was able to overnight replacement parts, and everything works way better.

[Zephyros]

Yikes, good lesson to share, will check mine later this week.

When I got my boat a few months ago I took off the sail, cleaned all the sail tracks and rigging and sprayed everything with MCLUBE SailKote Dry Lubricant. I still notice however when raising my gaff it does seem to stop a little short of the full up position. Sometimes the main halyard (throat halyard?) stops about 6-8 inches from the pulley, other times it stops at about 10-12 inches from the pulley, did you notice this problem before the crushing began?

[bruce]

Yup, this u-joint is toast. It doesn't look like a storage issue to me. The bolt serving as the pivot isn't original, and looks to be binding. Bending it as it is wouldn't be easy, a recurring problem? This poor guy was abused!

[rogerschwake]

  The gooseneck is a weak point I believe on the Sun Cat, I have replaced mine on my 2004. After sailing my Sun Cat for 6 years and I've finally learned to make sure the gaff is below the hinge joint before lowering the mast, real hard on the gooseneck. Yours looks like its seen better days. A line hooked to this fitting also helps when lowering sail, other sailor on this sight have talked about adding this down hall. There is a little learning curve to sailing these cat boats, keep at it.

ROGER

[Christopher]

If you search the post in Suncat from Nov. 20, 2015 with the title of "Gaff Slide on Mast" you will see a trail of messages on this.  There is even a drawing with part numbers.

Chris
Second Wind

[DanM]

Our Suncat has a gaff downhaul, installed by the PO. It's very helpful when you lower the sail, but it also has an incidental secondary benefit. When you use it, you automatically pull the gaff below the mast hinge, so even if you forget to insure the position of the gaff by installing the long pin, the gaff is likely to be below the hinge anyway. A good backup against an absent-minded moment in the process of lowering the mast, not that I could possibly forget something like that..... wait, what was I writing about?..........

[Jim in TC]

Yikes, good lesson to share, will check mine later this week.

When I got my boat a few months ago I took off the sail, cleaned all the sail tracks and rigging and sprayed everything with MCLUBE SailKote Dry Lubricant. I still notice however when raising my gaff it does seem to stop a little short of the full up position. Sometimes the main halyard (throat halyard?) stops about 6-8 inches from the pulley, other times it stops at about 10-12 inches from the pulley, did you notice this problem before the crushing began?

We still find those last few inches to "full up" to be the most challenging but everything, including that last tug, is easier than it was before replacing the whole assembly. To be down by almost a foot seems excessive. There is some technique we are still learning to how the two halyards need to be pulled to prevent things binding on the way up.

For us I think there was a loss of flexibility in the fittings, either by my 'welded by corrosion' theory or just some non-factory changes to the fittings. What we primarily noted was the difficulty - seemingly because the slide was binding on the mast track - of raising (and lowering) sail and also getting the slide to run below the mast hinge. The good news is that the slide did no apparent damage to the mast track! A bit of WD-40 or equivalent sprayed into the joint on the gaff before winter storage seems a small chore that might save big trouble later. I am also using the dry lube mentioned, and I expect that is a prudent move as well.

BTW, replacement of the gooseneck assembly was not particularly difficult or time consuming and the newer parts have some design differences that seem far superior to the older one. Also, as has been noted elsewhere, Hutchins is great to work with and as I said, was able to overnight replacement parts getting us back on the water in no time.

[bruce]

Thanks for the follow-up Jim. Your photo, and those found on the link Chris provided of mangled goosenecks are dramatic. I'm a PC sailor, but bear with me. The gaff and boom gooseneck assemblies on both boats are the same, but we don't see typically that level of damage to the gaff gooseneck. If we drop our mast with spars above the hinge, we usually are dealing with a spread mast track.

However, we are very familiar with Com-Pac's modified throat slide with the extended ring, that both boats share. My boat was bought new in 2010, and, so far, I've never dropped the mast with gear above the hinge. The gaff peaks quite high, and early on I saw scarring on the my gaff from rubbing on the extended-ring throat slide. The scarring was from the ring, a couple of inches up the gaff, but also at the gaff end cap where it rubbed on the weld. My ring was bent off axis about 20 degrees, so, when I hauled on the throat halyard, the slide would cock and bind, inducing friction. Straightening the extended ring was a temporary fix. See the first photo.

The second and third photos show worst damage on other PCs. In the second, the ring broke off as the throat halyard was being raised. In the third, the ring has worn a hole the gaff. The throat slide has been replaced and the halyard clipped to a soft shackle, as I'll describe.

If the gooseneck is otherwise in good condition, all that's need is a new slide. By using a boom gooseneck slide with the gaff gooseneck, and attaching the halyard with a soft shackle or lashing, the damage of metal on metal rubbing is avoided, and the halyard pulls on axis. It would be best to have the ring on the new slide to be on top, attached to the halyard, but the gaff would rub against the ring. Positioning the ring underneath, and making the soft connection, works fine. My 3/16" Dyneema soft shackle has been in service for 4 seasons, with no sign of wear. A number of PC sailors have made this mod, with similar success. Credit must be give to former PC owner, and experienced sailor, George Haycraft for this idea.

Com-Pac sells the boom gooseneck slide as part #MR00S0041, for $19.65. It is available directly from Dwyer for $15.07, DH 4151S. When I ordered it, the part number was DH 418s. That's still listed as well, for $14.49. Not sure what's different.
https://www.dwyermast.com/searchResultItem.asp?ItemID=740

One of the photos in Chris's link shows similar scarring on the gaff from the extended ring. This mod may be of use to SC owners who are experiencing binding problems with the throat slide as well.

[Jim in TC]

Interesting stuff, Bruce. I can see some advantage to a fitting on the slide instead of just tied in a bowline as mine is. Also I see there is a block above the slide. Is that stock or added to the rigging? Our Sun came with none of the running rigging attached and the factory information is very limited on that score: "the boat comes rigged, so instructions are not needed." Unless, of course, you buy the boat in pieces later...

Do you know of a set of detailed photos or drawings of factory setup and "best" modifications?

I have the "Cat Boat Guide and Sailing Manual" which is helpful but doesn't seem to have a full set of rigging instructions for the ComPac Cats.

[bruce]

Jim,

My throat halyard has a 2:1 purchase. The stock set up is 1:1, as I believe it is on the the SC. With both the throat and peak halyards 2:1, you can pull on the halyards together until the throat sets, and then continue on the peak halyard. Most catboats are rigged that way. My throat halyard runs from the cleat on the coaming to a cheek block on the mast stub, up the mast to a second cheek block, down to the block you see on the throat slide, and back up the mast and tied off. Also in the first photo you can see other rigging mods I've done, lazy jacks (with the blue fleck), and a boom vang. Before I lower the mast, I bring all lines forward and loop them around the long pin, and snug them up so they lie straight in the sail bundle. It really helps control tangles with the peak halyard and lazy jacks.

Unfortunately, I don't know of a good guide on setting up a SC.

[DanM]

The Suncat is rigged 1:1 on the throat halyard and 2:1 on the peak halyard. As you raise the sail, you want to keep the gaff HORIZONTAL all the way up until the throat is in place, then peak up the gaff. With this arrangement, naturally, you keep the gaff horizontal by pulling the peak halyard twice for every pull on the throat halyard.

[Zephyros]

DanM, thank you, that may be my problem with the throat halyard not getting all the up everytime. When I've raised my sail I was keeping my gaft at about 45 degrees. Next time I will "keep the gaff HORIZONTAL all the way up"

[bruce]

Tom,

A couple of other things to check, if you haven't already. You won't be able to tension the luff if the sheet is cleated, or under foot, holding the boom down.

If the luff does tension, but at different heights, check the boom downhaul.

I had a new one the other day. The sail hung up, and my reaction was to pull harder. Never a good idea. The long pin had caught on something, and the lanyard parted under the strain. Fortunately the pin bounced into our open cockpit. Sounded more serious than it was.

[Jim in TC]

I was watching yesterday to see just how that damaged gaff (from rubbing on the gooseneck slide, apparently) could occur and it looked to me as though the gaff would have been consistently tugged in too tightly to the mast for that to occur. Right?

I have been looking at that hinge piece lanyard, Bruce, and wondering if anyone has lost it over side. Sounds like a close call for you, and one that would not end as happily with a Sun Cat. I now have ours tucked neatly into the space between mast and running light, which at least keeps it out of potential tangles, and may look at other options for securing it.

Thanks for the tips on rigging. We will be pulling out of the water for a couple weeks and I will look at options...

[bruce]

I'd say yes, but the the proper angle of the gaff, and how tightly the peak halyard is set, is determined by the cut of the sail. If it's too tight, you'll have an obvious crease. At least on the PC, the extended ring on the throat slide will rub on the gaff with the sail properly trimmed. Com-Pac could see the gaff would pinch the throat slide with the sail shape they wanted, and added the extended ring. Unfortunately, it still binds, at least in some cases, and certainly did on this SC. The extended ring is long gone! I don't know how prevalent this is on a SC.

If the gaff wasn't peaked as high, performance could suffer, but there'd be better clearance at the throat. I like that our gaff peaks high, better wind up there, and I like that out boom is set high, no ducking necessary. I think it's a good compromise, and I'm happy with our throat slide mod.

The second photo shows a bent extended ring on another PC. The slide jammed readily, as you'd expect. Don't try to make sense of his set up, he took this at the end of the season when he was taking things apart. The sail isn't even attached to the gaff!