Keel repair question on Cricket ... tool advice

[Cricket Crew]

Hey guys ~
Getting started on my prep work to tackle the keel repair on Cricket and I need some advice on tools...I want to get the cracks ground down while it's cold, so I'll be ready to glass/epoxy once the weather warms ...
I've checked out several sites where some serious keel repairs have taken place ~ most have used angle grinders. If you'll check the thumbnails below, you'll notice the numerous, obvious, cracks (there may be more under her bottom paint that I can't see) that are visible both vertically on her keel from damage caused by riding on the bare front roller shaft and the longitudinal cracks that run on both sides of the hull at the turn of the bilge.
OK -- my question -- when beveling the fiberglass to provide a good 4" surface for glass/epoxy repair bonding, do I need to use a 'flexible' base attachment on my Bosch grinder with sanding discs or do I need to use a grinding attachment to create the bevels? How do you do this on the longitudinal cracks that follow the turn of the bilge down both sides? It appears that the radius is too tight for my small 4 1/2 inch grinder to follow so that when the repair is finished, the hull will be fair and smooth.
This is the vertical crack at the trailer's front spindle location from the starboard side

This is the crack at the same location from the port side

Here is an image of the longitudinal crack at the turn of the bilge on the starboard side -- you can see it's position in comparison with the vertical crack at the bare spindle location, which is more forward

Then aft, on both sides of the keel is a large expanded area that has 'spidered cracks' and sounds 'hollow' when tapped

The longitudinal crack's edges have 'rolled' outward, especially on the port side

What's underneath, appears to be auto body filler!
So, that's what's ahead for me ... any advice on grinders is appreciated.
AJ

[B.Hart]

Hi AJ looks like you got alot of fun ahead of you,just kidding. A good friend of mine who does glass work for a living repaired my keel for me when I first got NUM1GIN. He used a diegrinder to grind out all the cracks, then faired the gouges out and filled the holes with chopp mat and resin, sanded to a rough finish, then used a body type filler to fair the surface. I bottom painted the repairs and it looks good as new. None of the repairs have failed. My tip would be to ALWAYS grind any glass that you are going to bond to. Secondary bonds are never as strong as primary or original bonding.Good luck and happy sailing.

[ilbuildit]

   Hey AJ,
   Those cracks look by the pictures very severe. If those are as bad as they look and are completely separated all the way through it would be a good idea to do patchwork on both sides of the crack or they may possibly come back at you. Possibly easier said then done though.

   The first reply as far as repairing is absolutely correct. You want to grind out the loose glass and "V" out the crack area. Meaning when you grind a crack it will look like a "V" in the hull material. A die grinder works best to do this however you can acheve good results with a grinder but only on larger cracks. If you have small hairline cracks, the grinder only creates more damage then good.

   I am assuming you have a 4 to 4 1/2" angle grinder. I would use the hard rubber grinder disk backing and not the hard fiber disks. It hogs material very fast so go slow. Drill the ends of the cracks. This aids in stopping the crack after repairs from "creeping" on you later. Once you have "V' out the cracks make sure there are no hard lines in the areas you ground out. Smooth over the hard lines with some sand paper. A "DA" or Dual Action sander would work best for doing this and also sanding your hull for the glass repair and final prepping. If you don't have a DA and want to buy one and you don't have a compressor you can get them electric. Just make sure it operates smooth or it defeats the purpose. Avoid using a vibrating wood sander!!!

   Hope this advise helps out as well. Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions or well all just keep our eye out on this thread.

   Lee...

[alexkniffin]

Obviously, this goes without saying, but just in case:  Remember to wear a filtering breathing apparatus when grinding fiberglass.  A dust mask is probably not enough (but beats nothing, I suppose).  Considering the damage that fiberglass can do to the lungs, the $30-45 you will spend at Lowes to get one is CERTAINLY worth the investment.

[Cricket Crew]

Thanks B. Hart and Lee ... Yes, the most severe cracks go all the way through the fiberglass to the concrete and are visible on both sides of Cricket's hull. She experienced MANY years of neglect and abuse before I obtained her -- at one time she was dragged onto a 'rollback', sitting on her trailer with only rims and dry rotted, flat tires, no rollers on the trailer spindles and transported many miles only to be dumped on a vacant lot -- I think that's how the front vertical crack at the forward trailer spindle occurred. There was even fiberglass fibers chewed into that spindle ... not a pretty sight! After I got her and cleaned her up a bit, did I realize the extent of her hull damage (it was hard to inspect her in the field with HUNDREDS of wasps wildly flying about -- they had built two grapefruit sized nest in her cabin ... that's right, one was right next to the companionway hatch, so you know when the hatch was slid forward, they were not happy!)
Anyway ~ she's mine! And beautiful to me!
Here's a shot of her cleaned and 'home'

I'll keep you posted of her (our) progress, again thanks for the info!
AJ

[davestlouis]

I'm next with my keel repair...I've been putting it off due to the cold winter, and have even avoided this forum because I didn't want to think about it, but spring is coming, so I'm back to planning this repair.  Please show us pic's as you go through the process.

[Cricket Crew]

Dave & All ~
I too have been waiting for a break in the weather and it seems it's here! So, I'll post some pics soon of how she's coming along.
ITMT ... Once Cricket was home and all the weeds growing out of her laz and cockpit were cleaned (yes, someone left her laz hatch open many years) it was apparent her concrete ballast had exploded up out of the fiberglass floor, especially aft

I wanted to tackle the keel repair BEFORE fixing the hull/deck joint. BUT ... After every rain, I had lots of water on the port berth and only a small pool at the hull/bunk/aft bulkhead joint on the starboard side. I'd get in, wipe her out, open the hatches and dry her out....OR SO I THOUGHT! OK ... BIG RAIN PREDICTED ... I decide to put two crumpled beach towels (one on each bunk/hull joint) for protection. The starboard side towel was soaked -- I mean dripping soaked! All the water from each rain was running across the bunk straight for the aft bilge and directly under the concrete ballast. Years of freeze/thaw has forced the ballast up and back



Initially I thought that ride on the bare roller spindle had cause this ballast shift, but now I think it was the force of winter ice within her bilge.
I have even noticed that when there is heavy dew, there is a tiny 'ghost line' where water has run across the starboard bunk, off the edge and into the bilge/under the concrete.  So ~ looks like she'll have major work done by the time I'm through and she's finally DRY! Will keep you posted guys!
Later,
AJ

[saillover]

As soon as I finish my cabin ceiling re-lamination project I will be tackling the ballast area. The fiberglass sheathing that covers the cement has come loose and I am nervous about what I will find underneath. I know that water has been getting in from poorly bedded deck hardware but I don't know what the extent of the damage will be. I keep thinking that it would be easier to remove the deck from the boat so that I would have great access but I did just re-rivit the hull deck joint.. argh..
Anyway, thanks for the posts and photos.  I will get some photos posted also.

[Craig Weis]

Good Sunday morning, skip here. Looking at about 20" of snow...

I have been reading and thinking and looking at the pics. [Wow! What a mess. It looks like it got wet and froze] about all the keel questions and was wondering...

"Why not just sand her down until the glass cloth layer is exposed, from the fullness of the hull to and around and underside the keel?"

What falls off, well was not stuck anyway. And what stays firmly in place is good. The broken concreate inside top of the cockpit sole...just smooth with hammer and chisel and pour till covered an epoxy covering. That ought to seal it.

BTW, This reminds me of an article I read in a car magazine where a fellow was tired of looking at all the waves in his Brixton Safety Car [Remember these?] and with an air sander smoothed the body down then scooped and weighed 113 pounds of fiberglass dust off this garage floor from the car's body!!

Anyway...
When I was a kid I use to work for Sand Pounder's Inc. We shot chopped glass and resign into molds, then rolling the chop into the molds of fiberglass dune buggy bodies for Rick Murphy in Wheeling, Illinois. Three days later we popped out the bodies and trimmed them up.

I suppose that the depth of the new layer going back on the hull would be about 3/8 to 5/8 thick and this material would be a two part polyester or epoxy resign.
I would find out just what the factory uses and get the same stuff.

The application I would think would be by a small 5 inch or so roller and the pot life per batch maybe about 30 minutes before having to mix up another batch.
The temperature needs to be around 55 deg F. minimum. Warmer is better.
I don't think you can make a mistake with glass as any opps can be ground down and re-applied.

I'd jack the boat up working around the trailer if you have to... [you can do this with a three ton floor jack with a short 2x4 under the balance point of the keel as long as the hull is steadied from rolling port or starboard] and support her by the deck/hull joint in a cradle with her bottom hanging free.

To build this cradle you need some room. Then wrap some long 2x4's on edge around the shape of the hull below the rub rail. Cope and cant maybe five floor supports per side in toward the hull at about 15 deg. Tie these verticals together at the floor with cross pieces by bolting and just under the hull also by bolting.
It's easier then it sounds. Lower the hull into the cradle and remove the jack. It would be nice if the keel was about 12 inches above the hard.

The key to this job is prep work. Sand~Sand~Sand~ and Sand her some more. Luckily the C-P 16's are rather smallish in bottom area.

Of course you can just spot in where the cracks are and forget all this and sail away. I soppose you think I'm nuts and that's a possibility.

So tell me just how did you manage to put thumbnail pictures on these posts? I have not been able to figure this out.     owlsnest34@hotmail.com     skip.