Electronics for the CP23

[Bob P.]

Anyone care to share their experiences with electronics on their CP23?

I'm looking to drop a few sheckles on electronics and navigation aids as my wife and I start to venture further away from our familiar sailing sites.

Any suggestions? All I have right now is a meridian gold handheld GPS that I can download charts to.

Cheers,
   

[jaguaretype]

Bob P, I'm also looking at new electronics for my 23 having none at the moment.  My short list consists of a Garmin GPS Map 76CS, an Icom IC-M1V (VHF), a Richie Voyager B81 (compass) that I can use suction cups to attach to the bulkhead when sailing, and a Raymarine ST1000 Plus (autopilot).  I would have chosen a Garmin iQue 3600 as the GPS but for its inability to communicate with the autopilot through a NMEA protocol.  All the electronics I'm considering are handheld.  Your thoughts?  Jay

[Bob P.]

I think the handhelds for GPS are the way to go. Good call on one that communicates with the ST1000 (I think the Auto Pilot will be in the second round of purchases). My only reason for the Magellan is that it is the one my wife purchased for chrismas.

I too am a fan of the handheld VHF, but am a little concerned about range without a masthead antenna. Although, the fact that it runs on separate batteries is a major plus. Less drain on the house battery is desirable.

I have not seen the compass with suction cups, but I like it. I want to keep the bulkhead flat cuz it's a great place to lean against under the shade of the bimini.

Just curious, How are you planning to mount the autopilot. I was thinking that the cantilever mount might work best, but would like to see how others have accomplished.

Cheers,

[jaguaretype]

Bob, you can connect an external VHF antenna to most handhelds if desired.  However, a demasting could destroy a "mast" external antenna.  For this reason, many sailors attach the external VHF antenna to the stern rail.  The range of an external antenna connected to the railing is probably not much greater than the hand held antenna, since VHF communications are "line of sight".  The transmitter/receiver power of most handhelds is about 5 watts which is not that much less than that of fixed base VHF.  After all considerations, I don't see that much of a difference in performance between top-of-the-line handhelds and fixed base units.  The compass does not come with suction cups.  However, such cups are readily available from stores, such as bed, bath and beyond, since they have a lot of household uses.  The ones I've seen have bases into which you can screw on brackets.  The 23 D I have is in original pristine condition.  While I want to "personalize it", I'd also like to be able to return it to its original condition.  Thus, I'm loath to drill a lot of new holes into the mast, boom, hull, deck, etc.  Jay.

[CaptK]

I have a mixture of handheld and fixed mount electronics onboard Epiphany. I try to have 2 of each item, for redundancy.

Because I primarily sail offshore, a masthead antenna coupled with a fixed mount VHF is a *must*. The range difference it gives is incredible. I have spoken with a marina at +30 miles away using my fixed-mount Standard Horizon Eclipse VHF at high transmission power (25W), which is 5X what my handheld can output. My fixed mount is positioned on a corner shelf just inside the companionway, at the top corner of the cabin trunk.

My handheld, the Standard Horizon HX350S, can run off of AA's (rechargeable NiMH or Alkaline) as well as the rechargeable battery pack. Nice feature. One thing to be aware of when using a handheld attached to a masthead antenna is power loss due to resistance in the 35' or so of wire between the handheld and the antenna way up there. This can cut your range considerably. While I have been fortunate never to have used it for such, I feel that the VHF is one of my most important safety items aboard.

My primary GPS is a Magellan Sportrak Pro. I have been eminently pleased with it, over 2 years and not a problem with it. I shopped GPS's hard before buying this particular model, and found that it delivered the best bang for the buck of anything available at the time. It was a decision I have not regretted. A good place for GPS info and reviews: gpsinformation.net . My backup is an older Garmin GPSII. Not nearly as fancy, it has worked quite well when needed. In part due to it's age, however, it runs as long on 4 AA's as the Magellan does on 2 AA's.

I have in the works a swing-out arm which will be positioned next to the companionway. On it's shelf will go the GPS, fishfinder/depthsounder, and perhaps the fixed-mount VHF w/external speaker. Epiphany has a bulkhead-mounted Silva compass, and it has not been in the way at all. As far as reclining in the shade under the bimini, get a couple of the Sport-A-Seat cushions - they are *great*, both underway and at anchor, in the cockpit or on the foredeck, as a seat or, 2 placed end-to-end, as a "berth" under a starry sky.

An electronic item not usually discussed: batteries. I have about a whole slew of NiMH rechargeables, and 2 Energizer quick-chargers with 12V plugs. The chargers can put an 80% charge on a AA in less than 1 hour. I use the batteries in my GPS, handheld VHF, MP3 player, flashlights, camera, etc etc... so having a handy, quick way to recharge them is very nice.

Speaking of flashlights - these are essential electronics IMO. I have several different kinds, all available cheaply at WalMart. One is an Energizer brand with both a single LED beam and a compact flourescent tube. Nice for tasks and moving about onboard, and for lighting up the cabin and reading, etc... 4 AA's have given me over 12 hours use so far, and still going strong. I also have a smaller 3 white-LED spot lamp that can attach/detach from a headband which came with it. Another LED headlamp I have onboard has both white and red LED's. I use this when traveling at night in restricted waters, as it will allow night vision to remain intact.

Spotlights - soon after getting Epiphany, my girlfriend bought me a 1M-candlepower cordless rechargeable spot. I also bought a corded cheapo version for $10 as a backup. I have not used the cordless in over a year - it's energy consumption is simply too large for me to bother with. If or when I use a spot (and that's rarely), I just plug in the cheapo light for temporary duty. I much prefer to navigate under what I can see with the good old MK1 Eyeball.

[jaguaretype]

Kurt, thanks for your post.  While the majority of my sailing will be on lakes and bays, you've convinced me that I should consider a fixed base VHF.  I didn't realize the power differential was that great.  Jay.

[Bob P.]

Kurt,

Do you use any Nav chart software with your magellan??

I am considering the BlueNav disc that I can upload to SD memory
cards. The wife and I are planning our first major trailer trip to Fla
next year and are curious if it's worth charting electronically, or to continue goin old school paper.

-Cheers

[CaptK]

Kurt, thanks for your post.  While the majority of my sailing will be on lakes and bays, you've convinced me that I should consider a fixed base VHF.  I didn't realize the power differential was that great.  Jay.

Jay -let me recommend that you get one with the RAM mike - that way you won't need an external speaker or mounting. Although it is more expensive, it would be way more convienent. If I had my 'druthers...

[CaptK]

Do you use any Nav chart software with your magellan??

I am considering the BlueNav disc that I can upload to SD memory
cards. The wife and I are planning our first major trailer trip to Fla
next year and are curious if it's worth charting electronically, or to continue goin old school paper.

Bob -

I have a couple, but not the real electronic-chart-type stuff, at least not for my handheld GPS. IIRC, I have both the Mapsource and the Garmin CD's which basically have a little finer detail contour-wise than the base maps, and they also show more nav markers/info. They do not have depth. While nice, not worth the $99 I've seen them sold for, being practical about it.

I have also used 4 or 5 different GPS-hooked-to-laptop style chartplotting software apps. They are neat and fun to play with, but, for real world use, not as practical perhaps on our relatively small boats, in my experience. I think that it would be a different story with a 15 inch screen mounted in the cockpit, along with a keyboard and mouse.

With all that gadgetry, I like good old paper charts best. No batteries, no wires, no visibility issues in daylight. It's easier to look far afield when route planning. I guess I really use the charts for the navigation, and the GPS as a tool which aids what I am seeing with the chart, to let me know my speed, distance/time to arrival, that sort of thing.

Save the money, and buy a Sport-A-Seat - you'll use it a lot more.

Was looking at pics on Yahoo today - looking forward to seeing you post a lot of photos of Arwen in the Gallery. I carved you out a space there, per our other thread. She looks mighty sharp with that blue hull. I really like seeing what other folks do with their boats - gives me ideas.

BTW and Re: Arwen's name - you must be an LOTR fan? I've read the trilogy at least a half dozen times. What an incredible piece of work... The movies are OK, I guess, for book-to-movies, but they don't even touch on the art that is the written word of JRR, IMO.

[Bob P.]

I will post more pics of ARWEN as more come in. Trying to get some while
we are out of the slip, but we havent really anchored her yet.

We had decided on the name a while back before the movies really started. Were both amazed that the character had such an expaded role in the movies (and played by Liv Tyler, ra cha cha!). I think I've read the series about 4 times myself.

We really havent done anything to the boat as of yet, all the stuff on her right now is essentially stock. I gather from the Yahoo discussions that Hutchins is incorportating alot of the the things (SS Ports etc) seen on ARWEN into the 23/4. For what it's worth, our dealer said that this was the first 23 they built with SS.

I think it's a good sign that Rich and Gerry are keeping some innovations
in mind with their product. We had the chance to talk to them when we visited the facility in Clearwater, nice guys. ARWEN has gotten lots of compliments from lots of folks on our pier.

Thanks for the info on the electronics. I think I'll opt for the fixed mount VHF. BTW do you have a second battery on board?? If so where and how do you have it mounted??

Cheers

[CaptK]

Re: 2nd battery - yes, definitely. Right now, it sits next to the first battery, and, electronic sin of sins, I have them rigged them in parallel so they are in effect just one *really big* battery. A Group 24 came with the boat (brand new), and I added a 27, for a total of about 335 aH, if I'm remembering correctly. Eventually I'll set the smaller up as a starter battery, and the larger as the house bank, with a 1/2/Both switch.

The battery capacity Epiphany has would allow me to go 5+ days with no charging and still not discharge to 50%. My energy budget is below 25 aH/Day, even if I ran everything onboard for at least a bit - everything I've bought for the boat has been scrutinized for its energy frugality. Last time I figured it out, I could get close to 10 days on the hook without having to run the engine to charge. I'd like to get solar panels, but that's down the road a ways.

One other thing I've definitely considered doing is to move the batteries from the "factory" position. I'd like to put them at the forward bottom edge of the engine compartment. Besides bringing their weight in and down, this would make for much shorter wire runs, and easier maintenance. Negative considerations would be potential hydrogen production in the cabin, and the shape of the boxes would protrude into berth space. With precaution, I think it would be a fair trade off to move them.

Epiphany gets the same sort of compliments. She was the star of my old marina. Folks like her at the new marina, too. A month or so ago, a fellow stopped by and was asking about her. He told me that someone at the marina had said to him that Epiphany/CP23's were capable of circumnavigating. I disabused him of that notion as kindly as possible. I mean, I guess you could do it, but I think I'll leave it for someone else to try...

Unless Hutchins wants to give me a new CP23D with some extra mods I have in mind, of course... :mrgreen:

[Ron Chappell]

And as usual I find much of my thinking coincides with Kurt's.

Number one on the list is the masthead VHF (identical to Kurt's)  - He has already outlined the major reasons and they are sound ones indeed.  We also have two identical Standard Horizon handheld units that come in very handy when one of us is out in the dinghy or spotting on the bow and the other is at the tiller. But, the main reason for these is backup - something we learned both in Alaska and Baja (when ya need 'em ya need 'em!).

While I confess to being a gadget freak, I do try to incorporate only what I consider essential for the the type of sailing we do. Yet, and I've said this before - everything we have done to NO MAS! was with voyaging in mind -your situation could be totally different. We also have two each of the most essential items, at least to our way of thinking.  Again like Kurt, we have two GPS (identical Garmin 48s) one hardwired into the ships power and mounted above the nav table inside and the other that fits in a swing out mount to the cockpit and operates on batteries or 12v plug in.  These units are new enough to be laptop/autopilot friendly, yet old enough that I have finally figured out how to work them. Even then, I go nowhere without a proper paper chart - I could regale you with many stories as reason for this, but will leave that for another day.

Glass-matt batteries are high on my list and we have two, mounted in the original space, where theyare bolted down, and emit neither fumes nor fear of acid spills and sigh.. no maint. A couple of 11 watt solar panels allow us to go weeks at a time with very little engine charging. All our electronic items have the cables etc. to run off ships batteries as well as their own.

Still, I would trade nearly all of the above for an Autohelm 1000+ (should I not already have one - and yes, I'll one day have two). We have tons of other electronics but sadly they are just foo-foo sillys I was too weak to resist. So are we rich!  Well, I thought we were, before I bought this boat and all this electronic crap.

Could we do without all this stuff?  Sure we could, and did, for about twenty years.  Would I, do without it again?  Uhh  ....I don't think so!