Rudder control rod

[Tom L.]

Does anybody know the diameter of the S.S. down rod used to raise and lower the lower half of the rudder. The price from CP is a tad high to me. I can buy a 4' long 3/8" 304 rod for $10.00 and bend my own. Any Diameter is available. I just listed the 3/8" for an approx. cost.  I just don't know the exact diameter.

Tom L.

[hoddinr]

Looks like 1/4 inch rod to me Tom.
If you build one, how about building two and I'll more than cover your costs, making it free for you!

Ron

[brackish]

Not sure if the Sun Cat is the same, but the 23 is 3/8"

[Tom L.]

Looks like 1/4 inch rod to me Tom.
If you build one, how about building two and I'll more than cover your costs, making it free for you!

Ron

Ron,  I will let you know what I find out. But I think it is 3/8".  I may have to call Hutchins to find out the dia. I will use s.s. set collars to set the up and down stops and a delrin stock for the rudder clip. The handle on the rod will not be a loop but a simple "L" shape. I haven't ordered any thin yet. I will let you see mine first to see if it meets what you want.  The collars and delrin stock is available from McMaster Carr. The last time I ordered s.s. from Metal Depot it came very fast, less than a week. I don't know about the other parts.
Right now I push the rudder down by hand and have a nylon bolt as a shear pin. It is very important, as others have stated, that the rudder be all the way down, which is partially forward of vertical. The shear pin does that but it's a pain to us. I don't like to back down the ramp with the rudder down but instead kicked up so I have to lean over the transom to insert the pin.

Tom L.

Tom L.

[capt_nemo]

Tom L.,

Just relax, take a deep breath, and lean over the transom to insert the pin.

I say this because, as you stated, it is the only way to ensure your rudder is in the FULLY FORWARD position, which is quite important.

On the other hand, I carefully adjusted my SS Rudder Rod so that when "locked down" the rudder is in the FULLY FORWARD position. I then lean over the transom with my 70 year old body and tighten the rudder locking lever. Periodically check to ensure the rod positions the rudder FULLY FORWARD.

P.S. Bravo in making your own Rudder Rod. Warms my DIY heart!

capt_nemo

[Tom L.]

capt-nemo,  I thought that one only needed a rudder control rod. No need for anything else. From what you are saying you still find the need to tighten the pivot bolt after you lower the rudder using the rod. Is that correct?

If that's the case it really isn't much bother to push the rudder down and add the nylon pin. I don't  tighten the pivot bolt I just push the rudder down and pin it. 

I have a line running up from the trailing edge of the rudder, over the top back end of the rudder stock and back to a jam cleat mounted on the tiller. That actually works fine to raise the rudder and hold it up, of course, after I pull the nylon pin.

I guess I am trying to determin if a rod is really any help.

Tom L.

[capt_nemo]

Tom L.,

YES, I tighten the pivot bolt after lowering the rudder with rod to help make sure that the rudder stays down (and FULLY FORWARD) because I feel that the rod could possibly pop out of place in rough water.

Your pin actually does the same thing. I do not have a pin and hole through the rudder for shear pin/lock down like you do. If I kept "Frisky" (she's For Sale) I would seriously consider removing the control rod and drilling a "proper FULLY FORWARD" hole through the rudder for a removable shear pin.

I installed the rod only because it came as a package deal with the foiled rudder I got from the factory.

Your questioning the necessity and usefulness of the control rod is quite understandable. Aside from the belt AND suspenders value of keeping the rudder down I could very well do without it and probably wouldn't miss it. ESPECIALLY since the "one size fits all" rod from the factory doesn't fit all applications. For example, with the rod pulled up and welded square positioned to rest properly on the rudder head THE SUN CAT RUDDER IS NOT ALL THE WAY UP. AND, with the rudder all the way UP and locked with my pin, I had to modify the Delrin piece on top of the rudder head by making a "U" shaped groove to "capture" the rod assisted by a bungee cord to hold it fast. By the way, my control rod was installed on my rudder and rudder head AT THE FACTORY!

If you make your own you can ensure that it fits and works properly.

capt_nemo

[Tom L.]

Capt_Nemo,

Thanks for your candid response. It really isn't all that difficult to reach over the transom and insert the pin. And I normally only do that a couple times a day.  So I think I will put the hold down rod on the back burner and work on the many other fixes,repairs and mods I want to get done. I wonder why the factory doesn't use set collars on the down rod? That would make it infinitely adjustable for any boat.

This cold weather is slowing me down. Today it was just too cold to be out working on the boat. I think the high was about 50. I know it's not that cold but I have time so I will take my time. By Sat. it's to be in the mid 70s. Trouble is I will probably go sailing instead of working on stuff.

Tom L.

[reedtg3]

Good morning, Mates-
I like the idea of using a removable nylon shear pin to hold the rudder down and forward.  Can you recommend a product that is strong enough to hold the rudder down under ordinary use, yet weak enough to shear off under the force of a grounding?
I have already drilled a hole through the rudder blade in the fully down and forward position to accommodate the stainless steel pin used to hold the rudder blade up when on the trailer, but I've never used it to hold the rudder blade down while sailing because of the shear strength of the ss pin.  Also, there is too much play between the rudder frame and the rudder blade on my boat to get the pivot bolt tight enough to hold the rudder blade in position.  I do have a short length of pvc pipe which fits over the pivot bolt lever to provide extra leverage, but I have not had occasion (i.e., excessive weather helm) to use it yet.  Hey, keeping your kit in order is almost as much fun as sailing, especially when it is too cold/hot/windy/flat to sail.
Tom/Cattail/Suncat 377
       

[FireDrill]

For what its worth, I have a totally different, simpler home made fix for the whole mechanism of moving the rudder into the forward position.   I have inserted a simple plastic loop (short length of cable tie with the locking teeth -cut to about 2 inch diameter) into the hole in the rudder that the lifting line goes through.  I then take a piece of pvc pipe with a notch in it, insert it into the plastc loop and ,leaning over the transom push it forward till it stops. Holding it in that position,  I reach a little further down  to another piece of pvc pipe already pressed onto the rudder locking nut handle  (pointed down in the loose position for my rig)  and bring it up to the locked position, roughly horizontal on my rig.  See pictures.



The PVC on the locking handle is a slightly smaller pipe diameter than needed but flattened a little to make a snug fit - made by heating a few inches above an electric "burner" on stove top at home  for a couple of minutes and then squeezing w tongs (too hot for hands ).  This handle idea was thanks to a tip from capt_nemo in an earlier post  It works great!  I cut both pvc pipes to fit easily in cockpit storage after set up, the locking piece going in fuel locker. (quick access for emergencies)   

I figured if I am going to lean over the transom for the locking process, I might as well use a simple pushing mechanism while in that position to move the rudder,  rather than making the more complex  mods to install and fit the rod mechanism even though it is the more elegant device. The PVC pipe gives the extra leverage to move the rudder forward easily.  I could not do it directly by hand.  This process also leaves the normal line pull up mechanism to raise the rudder when needed (but I still have to unlock the nut - as one should do with any mechanism)   

[brackish]

I wonder why the factory doesn't use set collars on the down rod? That would make it infinitely adjustable for any boat.

That is actually a great idea.  My 23 has the factory foiled rudder and it never worked properly to keep the rudder down and forward during a sail.  It would develop slop to the delrin piece and would slide off laterally at the drop of the hat.  I fixed mine (below) and solved the problem, but an adjustable collar and a slot on the bottom of the delrin piece would be a good factory install that could be adjusted as necessary.

My fix - this works without using a shear pin.

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=7267.0

[capt_nemo]

FireDrill & reedtg3,

FireDrill, another great use of PVC Pipe and the DIY spirit - well done!

reedtg3, someone else had the non-tightening rudder head lever problem and I made two recommendations. First, check to make sure that the bolt threads allow the lever nut to be tightened (doesn't run out of threads). Second, since the rudder head is a cast part with only so much "give" in the cheecks, you can try positioning one or two thin nylon washers on the bolt inside the rudder head(one on each side of the rudder blade), and then try tightening the lever. I also found that a nylon washer helped reduce friction under the outside nut-lever when tightening.

capt_nemo

[Tim Gardner]

Well, well well!  Another upstate NYker sailor.  From Whereabouts?
TG

[FireDrill]

Tom,

Thanks for asking....I live near Rochester, NY,in suburb of Penfield.   Keep boat on trailer near and mostly sail on Canandaigua Lake  ( plan to be sailing a little on other nearby Finger Lakes this year). Purchased SunCat from the Sailboat Shop in Skaneateles NY. Loving my SunCat - perfect for single handing in this area with an occasional crew.  For those who have moved south, count your blessings!  Winters are a bit much lately -30 F wind chill last night, 2-3 feet of snow in front yard, can just see over piles from the plow.