Eclipse vs Precision 21

[Brent65]

Hello Eclipse Sailors,

I'm trying to decide between a new Eclipse or Precision 21.  Please help me!!  All your suggestions truly needed.

Strengths of the Eclipse:
Faster to rig and de-rig (this is very important to me.  I'll be trailering each and every outing).
Prettier boat with teak trim
Easier loading gear and accessing water (with low transom)
Better access to the outboard motor with low transom (inland sailor, so I'll be using the motor more than most coastal sailors)

Strengths of the P-21:
More interior cabin room (longer and wider)
Nice walkway to the bow (for hank on jib or to deploy fenders)
Stern rail seating
More room in cockpit (sailing with my wife and 4 kids)
More seating options in the cockpit (by configuration)

Questions:
Can you sleep 4 in an Eclipse?  4 adults or 2 adults + 2 kids?
Can you sleep 4 in a P-21?  4 adults or 2 adults + 2 kids?
Anyone here have experience with both boats?


I would appreciate any feedback and wisdom you might be able to share. 

Thanks,
Brent from Idaho.

[alsantini]

Hello Brent.  Here is my take based on experience.  I owned a P-21 for 13 years and now own an Eclipse.  First off both boats sail exceptionally well.  The P-21 carries more genoa and is a bit heavier so sailing and speed is about the same with perhaps a slight edge to the P-21.  The Eclipse cockpit is a bit more cramped but not much.  it is just about as long but a bit less beam.  I have not felt that it was significant and have had 4 heavy adult men in both boats with no big deal.  The P-21 exhibits a slight amount of weather helm and the Eclipse exhibits none!  The Eclipse is perhaps a bit more balanced but only slightly.  Both boats are great sailing boats.  I have had two adults sleep over in the P-21 but only me in the Eclipse.  On the P-21, the V berth is useless for an adult to sleep in unless you cover the porta potti.  The rear cushion allows an adult or a couple of kids to use the V but it covers the potti completely making is useless during the night.  I pulled the cushion and stored it in the basement so the potti was accessible.  The quarter berths are very comfortable and large enough for a big adult.  The Eclipse moves the potti under the floor of the cockpit, so both the V berth and the potti can be used.  There are three additional cushions that form the back of the V berth, leaving one of them out allows the sink to be used and still have sufficient sleeping room in the berth.  The quarter berths on the Eclipse are slightly less wide but still very comfortable for an overnight.  Plus, there are wooden forms that fill in the space between the quarter berths.  The seat back cushions fill in the space BUT now the porta potti is unusable.  I pulled the wooden forms and now they are stored in the basement.
I really loved my P-21 and would still have it if I could step the mast by myself.  For travel the boom, and mainsail go into the cabin and the mast is dropped down on some homemade support on the stern of the boat.  Strapping everything down for travel is time consuming.  It would generally take me over an hour to be ready for travel.  if I took the Genoa off it was more like an hour and a half +.  Launching would take the same time and required another adult (strong one too) to step the mast.  I experimented with various mast raising systems but never felt comfortable doing it by myself.  For the past two summers I wanted to take her to different lakes but could not because of the mast.  It is a beast!  I researched and found the Eclipse.  Same size as the P-21 and with a mast raising system built in.  It now takes me 20 minutes by myself to launch or retrieve.  Everything moves to a travel position and if I am not going far the sails stay covered on the boom all on deck.  Cool !!  I took the boat to Florida from Northern Illinois and stripped the topside completely.  The side stays pop out of the mast by turning them 90 degrees.  So, they get rolled up and stored in the cabin.  The mast has a pin that holds it in place and one bungee at the boom gallows holds the other end.  Everything on the Eclipse is designed for travel and ease of set-up.  Normal day sailing without removing everything and you are in or out of the water in 20 min max.  I increased my sailing time by 2 hours and 20 min.  3 hours for the P-21 vs 40 min for the Eclipse.  Once the Eclipse is in the water it sails great!  I have a 4 hp 4 stroke on the stern and it is plenty even for tide and currents.  You will not go wrong with either boat - just ask yourself if the boat will be in a slip all summer, the P-21 is perfect.  If any travel is in mind, the Eclipse is perfect.  Sorry if I have rambled too much.  If you ever need more info or have questions please do not hesitate to  send me a message.   I can even give you my cell phone if you want.  Al

[Brent65]

Al,  I have emailed you my cell number.  I would love the chance to talk with you regarding these two sailboats.

Brent

[Mike K]

Hi Brent and Al,

Deja Vu!  I was in your same exact predicament this past summer.  Precision 21 vs. Eclipse?   And the agonizing you're going through I can definitely relate to.

After much private e-mail discussions with Al, I was still torn about which boat to buy.  But a 2006 P21 in great shape with a really good price ($13K with 5HP Honda outboard and trailer) popped up for sale in Toledo (a mere 9 hour drive each way!).  I couldn't resist, so I came home with the P21 last August.

After owning it for a few months, it confirmed Al definitely knows his stuff, and he was spot on with his opinions.  So I'm just reinforcing what he's saying.  

The heavy, 30' mast (from waterline) on the P21 is a serious pain in the ass to raise and lower, especially with a roller furler on the forestay.  My wife and I could barely manage to get it raised (we're both in our 50's and in good shape), and then I had major problems to put the tiny pin below the furler that holds the forestay.   Luckily, 2 guys nearby rushed to our aid to hold the mast up while I fiddled with the forestay pin at the furler base.  It took me about 15 minutes to get the damn pin in because I didn't have the jib halyard really tight, and the drum kept dropping and blocking the pin hole.  

Anyway, after getting the mast up, I was scared to take it down again, knowing it is a beast. Luckily, I was able to keep the mast up in the marina stored on the trailer.  I would say that to manually raise and lower the P21 mast (with furler) SAFELY takes 3 people.  If the P-21 has a hank-on jib versus a roller furler, you may be able to get away with 2 fit people.

The P21 sails great and is a great boat once the mast is up.  I LOVE it, and I'm still excited to sail it come next summer on the Chesapeake.  But for the rest of last season, I was worried about how the heck to get the mast down for the highway ride home for the winter without destroying the boat, the mast or killing one of us in the process.  I did a lot of research about mast raising systems, and I bought a MacGregor 26 pole and winch system that required some engineering and making of steel pole pivots, then drilling the P21 mast tabernacle (not easy) and  mast to attach mounting hardware.  I winced the whole time I was drilling.

Then I had to jury rig side baby stays ( to keep the mast from falling sideways during the lifting process) with light chain between stanchions to create a pivot point parallel to the mast pivot axis.  It was a nightmarish 2 months to engineer, purchase pieces, construct and fit the system, and I'm fairly handy with that sort of stuff.  It's definitely not a turn-key system to buy and install.

Now that I have this home-grown mast raising system, it's not a nightmare to raise and lower the mast.  I can now do it myself.  But neither is it very quick.  I still think it would take over an hour to attach the contraption and get the mast up and ready to go.  It sounds like the Eclipse is the CLEAR winner for mast raising.

So, please don't underestimate the mast raising problem.  If you can keep it up in a marina for the season, go for it.  However, if you really want to do lots of trailer sailing, BUY THE ECLIPSE!

Good Luck,
Mike
PS: Yes, in addition to being a new Precision 21 owner in Delaware, I still own my little Com-Pac Legacy sloop that I keep at my vacation house in Florida near Charlotte Harbor.

[Brent65]

Many thanks to Mike and Al,

Based upon this excellent feedback, I am no longer interested in a P21.  I had nightmares of raising and lowering my old McGregor 26 after reading these comments.  I think the Eclipse will be way better for my daily trailering routine.  It was sure great to hear from two who had personal experience.  Thanks guys.

Brent from Idaho