Sunday Cat - Questions on Outboard and Anchor

[KimSails]

Just sold a Capri 16 that I have sailed for years.  Always wanted a Suncat.  Since I'm in my mid-60's, I decided it's now or never.  So I'm planning to buy a Sunday Cat since all of my sailing is day-sailing and I am attracted to the larger cockpit.  Wife demands the cuddy for the obvious reasons.

Question on the outboard.  I see that the Tohatsu Sail Pro 6hp 4-stroke seems to be the outboard of choice.  If I have the retractable outboard bracket on the Sunday Cat, do I really need a 25"?  Or would a 20" be sufficient?  Don't want it to be dragging it in the water when it is tilted up.

What is the preferred anchor to fit in the anchor roller?  I'm on Lake Erie and I've used a Danforth on the Capri 16, but I don't think that would work on the anchor roller.  Is there drainage for the rode and chain that is fed down the deck pipe?  If so, where does it go? (bilge?)

I've learned a lot lurking around here.  Thanks!

Kim
Lake Erie, Cleveland, OH

[ontarioSuncat]

With regard to the rode in the locker. I do not like putting wet and muddy chain and rope into the boat. I made a bag that will hold 150 feet of 1/2" line and 30 feet of 1/4" chain with the bitter end out a grommet in the bottom and around the cleat. The bag has 2 fastex buckles and 1" straps that hold it to the mast stub. The size is about 1 foot tall and 10" in diameter. It is real easy to raise the rode and drop it into the bag. Then wash it out later. I have the full Sun Cat and sail for 5 weeks at a time in the North Channel of Lake Huron and anchor every night but 4 when we need to be in Little current for supplies. Been doing it for 8 years. I use a Rocna #6 on a custom bow roller. I have a Bruce #5 as a spare anchor that is stored in the port Laz. for the nights when we may have picked an anchorage that may not protect us from a possible wind shift when stron winds are predicted. But the Rocna has held us fine in 20knot winds so far. We also have a boom tent that I made that makes the cockpit a seperate room where we can cook and stay out of the rain and provide shade. I use the "chain locker" as dry storage for cloths.
Hope that helps
John

[ontarioSuncat]

Oh, also we have a Nissan 5Hp long shaft that works great. About 1/2 throttle gets us to 5Knots and we tow a 8 foot porta-bote with a 2.5 Hp suzuki. I also keep a optima battery in the port laz. that supplies power to the VHF and recharges our devices.
John

[capt_nemo]

KimSails,

Congratulations on your choice of a Sunday Cat for your next boat. I seriously considered the Sunday Cat but opted for the full cabin model when I bought "Frisky" some 4 years ago.

Strongly recommend you consider a YAMAHA 4 HP 4-stroke Long Shaft Outboard for your Sunday Cat. I, along with several other Sun Cat Owners, have chosen the YAMAHA 4 and we are quite pleased with its performance. And yes, the long shaft will be appreciated, even with a retractable bracket, especially when motoring in rough seas. I have no trouble tilting my OB so that it doesn't drag in the water while sailing.

Check out the outboard tilt and clearance from the water in this photo.



Although I don't have an anchor roller (my choice), the Sun Cats I've seen have "claw" type anchors or equivalent in their anchor rollers. My Claw anchor rests in a rubber horse bucket with about 20' of chain and 150' of rode stored in a cockpit locker. Sailing solo, I set anchor from the cockpit and later switch the rode to the bow. Drainage as far as I know is to the bilge (another reason I don't have bow roller and deck pipe).

Hope this helps.

capt_nemo

[johnbeard43]

Regarding the outboards.  The 4,5,6 hp tohatsus are the same engine with the 4 & 6 tuned to rev higher.  They all have the exact same torque which is what you need with a displacement boat.  I used the 4 hp on a 5000 lb sloop and was happy enough with the cruising speed (about 4.7 knots).  Actually 4 hp is is overkill on the suncat but the 4 is the smallest motor with a remote tank.  Go with the 4 and take your wife to some nice restaurant at a nice marina along the way.  You can afford to do that several times over with the money you saved and crew and captain will all be content.

[KimSails]

Thanks.  Great info.

Kim

[Dave]

The thing that's really nice about the newer Tohatsu is the location of the shift lever - in the front of the cowling rather than on the side.  This is a major advantage if your maneuvering requires shifting into reverse.  I have a Tohatsu 6 and a Honda 5 on two boats.  Much easier to come into a tight space with the Tohatsu.

[FireDrill]

KimSails

Congratulations on the SundayCat choice!  Hope you get it soon. You will love it! I have the  full cabin Suncat with anchor roller .   

I was very happy with a 14 lb Delta Anchor on my former Freedom 21.  I sail in lots of places that have weeds and grass bottoms and found its plow shape to hold quite nicely in strong winds all night.  But it would not fit the SunCat Anchor roller!   So I now keep it in reserve (starboard locker) for overnight trips.  I have launched it from the cockpit, hooking it to the bowline when its out far enough so I do not need to go forward. (ie not on roller but in bow chock near it)  The Danforth you mention is known to be poor in grass/weeds and I have experienced this !

The 9 lb Delta does fit the anchor roller and is designed for boats up to 20 ft.  So far (only had SunCat 1 year) it has set and held well in grassy bottoms.  Like others, I also do not use the rode locker & deck pipe since I prefer not to go forward and for reasons the other stated.  I tie the rode to the port  midship cleat (not a standard SunCat part)  and keep the twisted nylon rode in a sheet bag near it in the cockpit.  The chain is only about 7 ft i.e. ends short of cleat. It's  polymer coated to minimize scratching deck, and heaviest weight available (1.2 lb/ft)  to improve its effect on helping anchor dig in. (I use the 14 lb Delta or 11 lb claw  with much more chain.) I raise rode above cabin to launch it and retrieve it. A swivel anchor connector connects the chain to the anchor and helps feed it through the roller mount.   I re cleat it to the midship cleat for short stops.  For longer stops when its down,  I cleat it to the cabin top (cleat not needed since sail is down) to prevent chafing on the side of the roller mount   

Note.. my 11 lb Claw also fits the Anchor roller but I preferred the lighter Delta.   There have been several good articles in recent (couple of years)  magazines on anchors and anchoring,(Sail, Practical Sailor, Small Craft Advisor)  One worth considering from the reviews, if it fits, is Rocna, a plow shape,  and  also mentioned by Ontariosuncat,  although I have no experience with it. It is similar to the Delta in shape so perhaps the 9 lb would fit. 

On Outboards, I use the Yamaha 4 long shaft and it has been a great choice!  - Very dependable , fuel efficient , plenty strong. very quiet especially on low throttle. Very easy to talk and motor sail!   It does have its shifter on the side and having used Johnsons previously, with the shift lever on the front end , i.e. closer to the transom, it has definite advantages.   That shift lever may be Yamaha's only drawback.  The newer models have a bigger shift lever-but still on the side - which helps fix the issue somewhat.  I am getting used to the side position so it seems easier now.  For long trips the Yamaha fuel efficiency seems like a major advantage but again I am also new to SunCats.

Enjoy your new SundayCat and let us know your choices!

[capt_nemo]

Hey guys,

Don't let the side mounted gear shift lever on the 4 HP YAMAHA OB or any other OB bother 'ya.

Just attach a short piece of 1" capped PVC Pipe to the lever and a thru bolted longer piece of ½" or ¾" PVC pipe to its top which reaches into the cockpit, and shifting is easy. Just have to watch the movement of the pipe when you turn the engine thru a large arc so it doesn't foul on anything.

The first photo shows the rig in the far left of the picture and the second shows the long pipe folded back out of the way at dockside (or anchor).

capt_nemo

[Bob23]

Great idea, Nemo. May we also confer upon you the title "PVC King of Port Charlotte"? Very nice modifications, as I would expect from you. I also love the leathers on the boom gallows. If I ever downsized from my 23, a Suncat would be the obvious choice.
Bob23

[Tom Ray]

...
Question on the outboard.  I see that the Tohatsu Sail Pro 6hp 4-stroke seems to be the outboard of choice.  If I have the retractable outboard bracket on the Sunday Cat, do I really need a 25"?  Or would a 20" be sufficient?  Don't want it to be dragging it in the water when it is tilted up.
...

A 20" shaft is fine for most applications.

When it gets really choppy, there's no such thing as enough shaft length and a 25" would be better. The 25" version will not drag when tilted if you raise the outboard bracket.

(The info that follows was accurate when I worked at a Tohatsu dealership in 2009 and things may have changed.)

The big difference is actually electrical. On the 20" versions of the 4, 5, and 6 hp engines, you can buy an alternator for $400 and add it to the engine. If you pay an extra $100 and get the 25" version of the 6 hp, it comes with the (otherwise $400 optional) alternator as standard equipment.

So, if you want an alternator, you'd be a fool to buy anything other than the XL shaft 6 hp.

Ours has a 20" 5 hp Tohatsu with no alternator and I like it fine.

[Dogboy]

I have the sunday cat and it came from its prior owner with a 6hp Tohatsu sail-pro.  I have not run the alternater cables to charge the battery so do not see value in that option personally.  To get the outboard out of the water I shut off the motor, put it in forward gear, tilt it forward all the way and rotate the head 90 degrees.  I typically leave the OB Bracket up all the way as it makes it easy to reach the controls and the tiller.  I also sail on a lake without much in the way of waves and there is no current.  For me, I'd have preferred a much smaller all-in-one unit.  The 6hp will push the boat very easily though.  I agee with others that you don't need the 25" shaft, but if you are sailing in a place where conditions will favor the extra 5", the upfront cost difference isn't that great.