Sailing with one sail

[hinmo]

Umm fellas, I don't understand the admonition regarding drinking, himno didn't indicate he would be inebriated, he indicated he may feel lazy.

As to the rig support, I agree with Skip, the aft positioned stays are taking the load of a backstay. Here is how I would think of this issue.  Lets assume that the wind is blowing at 12kts. No one would think twice about sailing with full sail and the rig not being supported. But lets say we are thinking twice and we sail to windward with the stated idea that the leach tension helps to support the mast from the aft. So far so good, but then we decide to turn downwind. Anybody keep their main sheeted in for aft support? Didn't think so. We sheet out the main, pole out the jib and the boats sails with full sail - no backstay, no leach tension and just the side stays to support the mast. Sure the apparent wind is now down about 8 kts and the associated loading too. The point is how many think the aft load on the rig downwind with full sail at 12kts is more than the force on the jib alone at 18 kts.  I know we have some decent math guys here so if you are bored and want to take a stab at this......

Lastly, I have never experienced lee helm with just the jib, especially in higher wind conditions. What I do hear about is the excessive weather helm and the need to step the mast forward of vertical, ensuring the rudder is fully forward and the virtue of the foiled rudders in that they extend forward to lessen weather helm. On my 16, 18 kts with only a jib provides plenty of weatherhelm I will guess a force of 3-4 lbs, enough that after beating for several hours you start to feel it.

In summary, I don't think we will loose our rigs because we have no backstay, I sail several one designs that carry about twice the sail as our 16's with much lighter 3 stay rigs, granted as the wind gets to 20 kts we do start to break things...I don't see an inherent lee helm problem in the 16 as described either when sailing with just the jib in reasonable air. Best of luck all......

Right Matt - I did not mention drinking ('nother subject). Yes, I was talking lazy.

Interesting discussion and info, this will all be proven/dis-proven when I wet her next year....newbie here,  thinking alittle bit too much during the winter doldrums (ok....back to my wine!)

Thanks all

[mattman]

A pleasure hinmo, I really enjoy this site, and the few folks I have met in person have been great. I mention this in several posts, but for  me, I tuck a reef in at about 12 kts steady. That is just me, I am not one to sail a cruiser with a big bubble in the main, just seems hard on the sail and you are overpowered on a beam reach. Now on a planing hull it would be a different issue.  I did buy the 16 to trailer to many locations, eat snacks and enjoy a few beverages. For that I don't want to work too hard either, I get my workout on the wet-butt one designs. Take care (I am heading down for a cold one too. Cheers!) Matt.

[kickingbug1]

    hey matt, if that day you mentioned with gusts to 26 was on carlyle lake. i was ashore watching with awe of your sailing skill-----and no, a couple of cold ones doesnot a drunk make.

[mattman]

Kick... That was one of two days I had the old girl out in a breeze. A week or so prior is when I screwed up and put her over on her ear. Thanks for the accolades, but the guys on the Snipes really had the ride! Man, if I had known you were there I would have sailed over and picked you up...really need to get a radio...we need to get us locals together for a Midwinter CLR gathering (afternoon beers). I would really enjoy meeting everyone. Check your messages I have left you my number. Matt.

[wroundey]

I took my 16 over to Carlyle late last fall for a very breezy sail with my daughter and we sailed with just the main, mostly because I was basically single-handing and did not want to push it too much. Looking at the forecast it looks like Sunday or Monday might be good days to hit the water again so I might make the trek over to Carlyle (see what the wife had planned for me first though).

[MacGyver]

Mattman and Kick, keep me in the loop, I would like to attend if I can as well

Wroundy, The lake was completely frozen last week and might still be (I look out on the lake every once in a while, but am typically more concerned with inside the harbor, where the very thick ice is indeed still thick.

Just called the Marina and asked our Office manager, she looked out and still saw ice.
Big problems up at the northern end of the lake, it is solid yet as of today.
Also if you did go out, had issues, there would be a delay of around 45 minutes to get to you if someone could at the very least.

Stay home yet Wroundy, and keep working on that honeydoo list for now

The last few good weather days and agitators running shows very little progress on the ice in the harbor, so I doubt that the ice on the lake would be gone for you for Sunday or Monday.

Mac

[wroundey]

Thanks for the update on lake ice. I was hoping the recent warmer temps might have thawed things out a bit, but I guess not. Oh well, another warm day will come along

[waterwks4me]

Brackish, although the website was interesting, I was specifically referring to the statement that was mentioned concerning the compact16 having excessive lee helm under the jib alone that some people have experienced.  I don't seem to recall ever dealing with excessive lee helm in any of my previous boats and was wondering if this was a unique characteristics to the 16's.