New to your forum but, not to sailing

[Bob23]

   I love my 23 but for me the next step up would indeed be a Flicka. I'd imagine they might be prone to hobby horsing but maybe not, being full keeled. There's one on the hard near me in a marina...neglected...hasn't seen water in years...but not for sale. Maybe that's a good thing because I might snatch it up and then divorce would likely follow. Or I might be found murdered!
Better keep the 23!
   I think if trailering was a high priority, the 23 would be my choice. One boat can't do it all...you may need 2!

Bob23

[frank]

I've trailered a Flicka on a 1600 mile trip, then crossed the Gulf Stream to Bahamas and sailed through the Abacos. Did the same with a 23 Compac Pilot House. Bottom line...if you are going to trailer a lot....go compac. If you are going to coastal cruise...go Compac. If you are going offshore for more than a good weather forcast...go Flicka, but carefully!! The Dana IS a great boat....but ya ain't going to like trailering it...even with a big truck. At 8000lb plus trailer....thats a lot of weight to both get going and stop!!!

[frank]

Flicka story   http://www.flicka20.com/Portals/30/ff/ff_12_01.pdf      Note: the only boat I ever got seasick on!

[frank]

Compac 23 cruise story  http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,3447.0.html
Note...I would not have wanted to be caught in the same seas with the 23 as I experienced with the Flicka.
having said that...with good weather planning and care, it was not a problem. The 23 trailered far easier and
the shallow draft was great for the Florida Keys and Abacos!!

[D78612]

It kinda looks like the smart thing is to start looking for CP23.  Can't seem to find a small cutter that looks as good as the Dana though and can't really find any other boats that looks and keeps the traditional look like the cp23.  I think the lines of the cp23 just look really nice.  I know the bayfield and the seaward but, they just don't appeal like the cp23.  Too bad there wasn't an option to turn the cp23 into a cutter.  Should I be looking for the 1990's and up cp23s' ?

[curtisv]

To be a true cutter the mast would need to be moved aft.  But that might make weather helm worse.  A few people have added an inner stay making their CP23 technically a double headsail sloop.  Since the CP23 mast may already be a bit too far aft, adding an inner stay might make it more of a cutter.  The two headsails when both set would move the sail center of effort forward which would help weather helm.  Generally cutter headsails are each smaller than what you'd normally fly on a sloop.  A small jib with cabin top sheeting might do the trick and would be real handy if the wind unexpectedly blows hard (as in gale).

When I had my 110 and 60 jibs cut by North Sail, we discussed using a storm sail on a removable inner stay.  The storm sail would be wire luff and use a fixed sheeting point on the cabintop.  I would not want a fixed inner stay because short tacking is hard on a cutter.  A removable stay with an inner jib would allow short tacking with the staysail and use of both headsails when on long tacks where the extra sail area would come in handy.

If you add an inner stay rigging below deck should go forward to the stem.  The stay should not just be attached to the deck.  At least wire it to a forward bulkhead and then glass the bulkhead in more securely.

A simpler alternative would be a genoa or drifter for light air but whatever you do, don't rely on a genoa as your only headsail if coastal cruising.

Curtis

[D78612]

Would any yall concider the Gulf Stream; Florida to Bahamas and/or the Gulf of Mexico really blue water ?  How would you characterise them ?

[crazycarl]

i was down there sailing a starwind 19 back in 2010.  if the winds aren't right, which they weren't for me, it can be extremely hazardous.

my 1st attempt, i encountered 10-12' swells with one rolling over every so often.

i have to add that i was there in the winter when the prevailing winds are from the north and of course the gulf stream runs north, so it can get quite rough out there.


check out this site...http://www.microcruising.com/lc1.htm


carl

[capt_nemo]

D78612,

I've taken sailboats and trawlers to the Bahamas, sailed to the Dry Tortugas, and sailed in the Gulf of Mexico, and I would definitely consider all those passages BLUE WATER!

How far off the coastal U.S do you think you have to be to consider it Blue Water?

Thorough preparation of your vessel and yourself for these passages is just as important as when preparing to cross an ocean. If you treat it otherwise, you do so at your peril! Not trying to scare you, just  sharing many years of experience with thousands of cruising miles under my keels.

The most important factor in your safety and the safety of your vessel is as always, anywhere, the WEATHER. Use it, don't fight it. To cross the Gulf Stream to the Bahamas (or return) with any northerly component in the wind is foolhardy and just plain stupid. Such a wind against the northerly flow of the Stream creates nightmarish conditions within the short distance separating Florida from a Bahama landfall. Most seasoned cruisers DO NOT HAVE A TIGHT TIMETABLE and wait for what we call a good "WEATHER WINDOW".

Fair winds, and sail SAFELY!

capt_nemo

[D78612]

As far as "blue water" is concerned...... I guess it depends on ones perspective.  I guess in my own eyes I would consider anything over 24 hrs. outside of land "blue water".  I understand the current and wind conditions concerning safe passage to the Bahamas across the gulf stream and I believe it is paramount to wait for the "weather window" so taking all that into consideration the trip across for all practical purposes is a day sail.  A sail from Galveston to Cancun straight across the gulf I would say is about 5-6 days.  This I would call "blue water".  Would I try it in a CP 23 ?  I don't know.  I know there is a race from Galveston to Vera Cruise every year.  I would also call this "blue water".  Would I try it in a CP 23 ?  I don't know.  I would also call sailing to Bermuda from the east coast "blue water".  Would I try this in a CP 23 ?  Probably not.  How about a sail to Catalina Island in a CP 23.  Yep.... I believe I would.  So, I believe there are varables that have to be taken into account along with perspectives..... weather, experience, buddy boats, absense of pride and a handful of guts and along with Lin and Larry Parady's books of practice of course. 

[curtisv]

Not having sailed there ...

Florida to the Bahamas is a 60 mile trip.  It is a day trip but one that requires a careful eye on the weather before starting out and a boat and crew that is prepared for foul weather just in case.  It is therefore definitely not blue water sailing.  You could argue that due to the Gulf Stream it is not light coastal cruising either, even though it can be done in a day.

The difficulty is the set of the current and its affect on navigation and also the possibility of wind against current and the steep waves that can result.

That said, people have reported doing it in a CP23 and I don't know of any CP23 lost attempting it.

You'd want to save that sail for well after you are thoroughly familiar with the boat and very confident that you are up for it.  Its not a good shakedown sail.

Curtis

[D78612]

I've been trying to find out what the head room is in the CP 23.  Do any of you have the height as I have not purchased one yet?  Thanks, Dave

[capt_nemo]

D78612,

"The Sailor's Book of Small Cruising Sailboats" by Steve Henkel says that the headroom is 4' 4".

Hope this helps.

capt_nemo