Keel damage

[skip1930]

A lot of work to do here. Lucky it's just a CP-16. Not too long thankfully.

Well start power sanding all the loose stuff off. That will take a week.
Then if the surface is dry, pick a slurry of your choice. Ask Mac for a pick.

Apply it, let it cure, sand to a fair line and shape it and paint the bottom.

As an alternative this little 1500 lb boat could be supported by four 2 x 4's placed up under the rub rail for each side. These 2 x 4's would need to be chained and bolted together so they can't spread. Put a block under the keel.

Actually, I'd consider just laying the boat on it's side in the grass and work on one side at a time. Easier on the back.
I saw a picture once of a CP-16 just sitting on this guys lawn. Nothing was touching the hull 'cept the grass under the keel. Just something to file away into the useless information file.

skip.

[Pamelina]

Hey Skip, believe it or not, most of the loose stuff is off. Still have to repair some blisters and sand where she was sitting on her bunks and glass over the keel damage. In the area where we chipped out a chunk into the cement, do we just fill it with epoxy and some glass? Mac, what's the "slurry" you'd recommend?

So she was blocked up at the marina today. They used a fork lift and set her on a metal frame with wood blocks. It was a little unnerving as she bobbled a bit on the lift, but now she secure and ready to work on. When they first set her down on the blocks her hull really oil canned halfway between the keel and the outer edge of the hull. They repositioned the blocks and all was OK. It was very disconcerting that she flexed like that though.

So here she is. More work tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow......


Pamelina

[MacGyver]

Pamelina,

I would sand with 40 grit, take it down the best you can, remember that the white is gelcoat and you want to leave that the best you can.
Sand the water line as a fresh person (so like the beginning of the day) and that way you will be able to control the sander better. Tape off the water line so you can see if you start to sand the tape you have a second or 2 to get off the spot. That way you dont get into the "topsides"

Open your blisters with a carbide cutter bit, also called burr bits. Or a dremel, etc. you shouldnt have to dig too deep. Fill these with either a mixture of 105/206 (206 for your area with the heat being a issue, that will increase working time)
and use 404 filler, to a creamy peanut butter consistancy, that wont fall off the mix stick. spread that into the blisters and build it out a little so when you sand it smooth you will only sand the blister spot back down to the hull.

That keel needs better fixing. Use a small grinder to get that spot opened up, then use glass to fill it back out. That will be a solid repair. With me not being there to say exactly, it is hard to say exactly what I would do, so this is a general answer. After a short time of gelling of the epoxy (west system I can assure this can be done) use the 404 mixture to cover over the glass to make it fasster on the repair work. This gets a chemical bond instead of a mechanical bond.
Sand all with 40 grit to make working fast, as Interlux 2000, which is gonna be your water blocker, will cover a 40 grit scratch no problem.

What you fix right now, should not be a issue later.

If you use a grinder and attack other spots on the keel, just use glass in return to fill, that way you maintain the structure. I try to be on here daily, so if you get into something big take a pic and put it here, I can look at it and advise best I can from the provided pictures.

That oil canning, we call compression, will happen some but it was obvious they didnt have it in the right areas. These boats are built for dry stacking which is not a normal sailboat thing. Hutchins was smart about doing that, pretty cool what you can do with these boats. As long as you dont hear a bunch of crunching and cracking, all should be well.

I am not going to say my repair methods are perfect, but I do the job commercially, and fix a lot of boats, and In the 12 to 14 years now, not a single job has come back of mine due to failure on my part. I have instilled practices at our marina that few others abide by, and that the Reps of the products say is overkill, but we do it anyway, and our track record shows that is good.
I will help you anyway I can to advise you in a fashion to facilitate your repairs. Just take really good pictures 

Good luck, and I am standing by.

Mac

[Pacman]

MacGyver has given some excellent advice.

The only thing I can add is that you might want to read the free WEST Epoxy publications.

They detail repairs with WEST products in a thorough but easy to understand way.

As MacGyver said, if you fix it right (as he has explained) it will stay fixed.

[Pamelina]

Hey Mac, thanks for the expert advise. We got a lot done today, even by taking a break from the mid-day heat. I'm here in FL and heat index was 100! We went back out from 5pm to 8pm and things went a little better. We're using the West products you mentioned. First time with the pumps for accurate measuring.  Should have tried it long ago! And we got the slow hardener because of the heat.

So the hull and top part of the keel are looking pretty good. The front of the keel near the bottom looks pretty bad. I opened up a quarter sized hole and stuck my finger in. I could feel some dampness, no actual water, but I was able to pry out some black crumbly concrete. I used a tent stake to poke around in there and see how far I could go. I would say I got in about 2 inches and then it was hard. So Rick, my hubby and partner in all things messy is thinking about using one of those epoxy sticks to shove up in there, since the hole is facing almost downward and not exactly symmetrical inside. Then a finish with West epoxy and glass. Thoughts on that?

So far, this work has not been as bad as I thought. We just take turns with the sander and lots of breaks. And water!

Thanks for all the help
Pam

[MacGyver]

Make sure you wear hearing protection as well. Not only does it help save the hearing but also cuts down on fatigue.
I would probably use 403 on that hole. 404 is good, but 403 has a leaching capability that will allow it to still wet outits ssurroundings pretty well. Better adhesion.
404 is good and could be used also, just doesn't have that fiborous  quality.

That hole could also be filled with (oddness alert!) A west epoxy and sand or mortar. Mixture. I have done both in other projects with amazing results. Cigarette ash trays with a west slurry of sand, and filled blocking cracks with west slurry of mortar.

Anyway, sounds like your on right track, keep up the good work, the hard part is almost done!

Mac

[Pacman]

I would fill the hole with WEST Epoxy resin thickened to a relatively stiff consistency as MacGyver has recommended.

However, I would first clean the hole with acetone.

After the acetone has evaporated I would paint the inside with unthickened resin so it would soak into the concrete.

Next, before the unthickened resin kicks, apply the thickened resin to fill the hole.

That way the thickened resin will form a chemical bond with the unthickened resin so the plug will have strong adhesion in in the hole.

Then, to hold the plug in the hole while the epoxy kicks, I use celephane box tape. 

That keeps the goo in the hole until it can become boat.

[skip1930]

A timely article appeared in   Boat U.S.    June/July 2013

Hull RX: When and How to Repair Gelcoat Blisters by Don Casey.

Additionally OnLine Extra. http://www.boatus.com/magazine/crazing

For info on repairing crazing in gelcoat, aka spidercracks and stress cracks.

skip.

[Pamelina]

Thanks Mac and PAC, we got your advise just before heading to the boat yard via West Marine this morning. We have plugged
the holes as stated and are now waiting for it to harden. Rick is then going to use some glass cloth over the front and bottom of the keel. I know the marina fees are $$$ , but I'm glad we are able to work on her up high.  Oh yeah, we sprayed the holes with acetone until all the gunk came out and the acetone ran clear. Hope it all works!

I'll be so glad to finally post photos of sailing instead of repair work!

Oh, what the heck, here's one from November at Cayo Costa, FL. A weekend with the West Coast Trailor Sailor Squadron.


And me....


Hope to be sailing again soon!

Pam

[Pamelina]

OK, we did it! It was hot and tiring 4 days, but she's done! Here's Rick working away. I was working hard too, just no photos to prove it!


Tada: the after:



All that remains is the water line and the area where the chocks were. We can finish that in our back yard. Thanks so much for all the advise. It rained on and off during our time on the hard, but with a tarp in place to keep sun and rain off we were able to keep going and rest while things were curing. We had our little Casita camper in a campground not 5 min away from the yard, and 10 min away from West Marine.

What I didn't get was a photo of the worse hole we opened up in the very lowest part of the front of the keel, but after following your instructions the culprit is probably better than new.

Again thanks for the timely advise.

Pamelina & Ricky Boy

[Bob23]

Pam:
  Wow...that was quite a dragon you and Rick slayed. Congrats. But, how convenient that there are no photos of you working hard! We'll take your word for it. Thanks for sharing the details of this keel repair adventure. I hope not to have to do that on my 23!
  Glad you'll be sailing soon.
Bob23

[skip1930]

Geee Pam, nice bottom.

skip.

[MacGyver]

Great work!
Looks great, and is a great accomplishment to have done it yourself.

Too bad you live far away from me, I might put ya to work ahhahahahhahahahahh

I am glad the repairs went well, and glad you asked for advice before just throwing a bunch of stuff in it.

Mac