Trailer tongue weight

[wroundey]

After my first outing with the CP16 (and almost not being able to get it out of the water) I am wondering if I am carrying too much tongue weight (which then pushes down the rear end of my van and lightens the FWD)? How much tongue weight is suggested for a CP16 sitting on a Performance trailer?  Thanks

[NateD]

Typically you want 10-15% of the loaded weight of the trailer. So if the boat is 1,100 pounds, gear on the boat adds another 100, and the trailer is about 250, that puts your loaded trailer weight at 1,450, so tongue weight at the coupler should be in the 145 to 217 pound range. It's been a while since I've owned one, but I believe I was able to squat and lift the tongue on my 16 and inch or two to get it onto the hitch, which would suggest it was closer to 150 than 200 pounds, but I could be remembering wrong.

Your encountering one of the bigger problems with launching boats with FWD vehicles. Some argue that FWD keeps the drive wheels dry and on a better footing, but that seems to be more than offset by the tongue weight taking weight off the drive wheels. However, you don't want to reduce tongue weight too much, or the trailer will start swaying and potentially pull the van off the road or into oncoming traffic.

[InertBert]

Mine is probably around 120-150 lbs.  I have a very heavy front wheel drive van and even on very steep ramps I have little problem.  One thing I typically do, since most FWD vehicles don't have any type of positrac, is I pull away from the water two footed.  It gives much finer control (at least in my van), and better traction.

I know that sounds ridiculous at first but if one wheel is on slippery algae (or snow/ice) it will turn with very little resistance.  The brake adds resistance to the freespinning wheel and the amount of resistance that it adds equals the power that gets diverted through the diff to the other side.  You also don't have the initial jolt of hitting the gas as you roll backwards a bit so the impulse is reduced, i.e. a smoother transition of power and better chance of escaping the ramp.  Next time you are stuck in a rwd car in the snow, pull the e-brake on about halfway, it really works.

What kind of car is it btw?

[InertBert]

Also, I know there is an internet convention to start a flame war as soon as the word positrac is mentioned.  If that happens, I'm sorry and I take full responsibility for that mistake.

[Pacman]

I pull away from the water two footed.  It gives much finer control (at least in my van), and better traction.......

The brake adds resistance to the freespinning wheel and the amount of resistance that it adds equals the power that gets diverted through the diff to the other side....... 

Next time you are stuck in a rwd car in the snow, pull the e-brake on about halfway, it really works.

InertBert,

I used to do that all the time to get going in my RWD VW bug when I drove on ice and deep snow in Minnesota. 

It does work exactly as you have described and should be standard slippery ramp practice.

Also, sometimes it is easiest to just shovel the scum off the ramp in front of the tires and then throw some sand on the ramp for traction.

[wroundey]

I am pulling with a 2005 Chevy Venture mini-van. Fully set up with the trailering package.

[InertBert]

That van is heavy enough to not make much difference with 200 lbs on the rear bumper.  Imagine if it were a buddy instead of a trailer and you were unable to pull away from the water.  There is a lot of resistance when you pull a heavy trailer up hill through water, going inch by inch is probably the best way to maintain grip.

I'd say make sure your rear tires are well inflated, take 3-5 psi out of the fronts, drive two footed, get a new pair of tires for the fronts, find a flatter ramp, trade your van in for a crane, or look into getting an extension for the trailer.  Whatever you do, do NOT trade in your compac for a lighter boat.  That just isn't a reasonable solution. 

[kickingbug1]

 i dont know what mine is but i can pick it up and move the boat around in the garage and it trailers as if nothing is back there.

[mikew]

I am going to agree with kickingbug. I've owned two Cp-16's now and could pick up the trailer tongue easily. One trailer was a Magic-tilt and one
was a Hutchins trailer. The magic-tilt setup was new from the factory in 1981. I would estimate the tongue weight to be about 70 lbs loaded. The boats always trailered well. I understand about the 10% weight rule for the tongue, but these trailers are set up different ? , it seems to work.
Maybe a call to the factory to see what tongue weight they recommend for the Performance trailer.

I always walk back and check the condition of the ramp bottom, check for large cracks or rocks, also some ramps have an deep drop off at the end
of a concrete slab or gravel pad, it is possible the trailer tires or axle can get stuck on this edge.    
Mike

[Citroen/Dave]

I have not seen mention of your tow vehicle.  (Ops, just saw that you have a Chevy.) My RAV 4 Toyota in a Front Wheel Drive.  It has a lock button on the dash to keep one wheel from spinning.  It automatically kicks out above a couple miles per hour if the dash button is not turned off.  Very nice feature.  Check your owners manual, you might have something similar.

Citroen/Dave

P.S. The 1955-75 DS Citroens did not have such a feature.  My buddy Glenn pulled his heavy 22 foot wood lapstrake runabout with twin 75's on the back, up the Lynchburg Boat Club Ramp on the James River with both tires screaming, one after the other. Then drive up the very steep Ruseuns Road.  Those Citroen half axles could take the loads with no problem.  Don't know about Chevys. [Keep the steering wheel close to straight ahead; the more steering angle, the more stress on the half axles.]

[InertBert]

It only now occurs to me:  When else are you going to get to do burnouts in a Chevy Venture?  Go with it and smoke em.

[Salty19]

At the risk of continuing the internet posi-traction debate, there is some merit to open vs. limited slip and lockable differentials.

I literally used a soft mud "ramp" to launch the CP16 a time or three with my old 4runner V8 AWD (with lockable center diffs, didn't have to activate it and the same AWD systems as land cruisers for Safari/off-road). Easy as pie with good tires, I never expected problems-it has seen much worse action in the backwood mountains of West-By-God-Virginia.

I pulled a spinning RWD GMC1500 and his powerboat out of the ramp with it in low gear range.  The thing was a beast.

But you would be a fool to try it in a FWD minivan, or for that matter a RWD pickup.

Now the nice thing about a CP16 is you don't need anything near that 4runner to tow and haul if out of the ramp.
But you'll want good tires up front, and good technique.

Each ramp has it's own personality. See if there is another ramp that gives you less trouble.

All the suggestions are really good, try them.

Or if you're still having trouble, a trailer extension would be the answer, I think?