Lazy Jacks

[Cevin c Taylor]

I'm thinking through the projects I want to undertake for next spring.  One is to keep the sail from ending up in the cockpit when I lower it.  I'll probably be sailing single handed a lot of the time, and this is a huge pain.  The topping lift keeps the boom up, but the sail still can get out of control easily.  I saw the lazy jack system linked below from Nautos.  I have bought some of their hardware, and I'm satisfied with it.  The price on this is $62, but they typically take 85% of the price on the "Make an offer" function.   It says it's for boats up to 31'.  I know I could probably buy parts individually from here and there and save a bit of money, but this is a kit, and it comes with instructions.  Time saved for other projects.  Anyone use this?  any thoughts on lazy jacks in general?  I'm a bit concerned about them rubbing the sail and damaging it.  Any experiene with that?  Thanks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAUTOS-LAZY-JACK-SMALL-SIZE-COMPLETE-SET-BLOCKS-CLEAT-/110995833416?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item19d7de0248

[MacGyver]

I dont remember what boat you have.

I took a harken kit and went through a process (since i have installed a number of different lazy jack systems)
I redesigned it to work efficiently for the 19. What a God send as to how many issues it fixed........and I had a lot of people telling me not to do it.

They can replace the topping lift also but must be setup to do so.

When i get home ill add a reply with what all I did.

Mac

[Cevin c Taylor]

Thanks - I have an '83 CP 16.

[skip1930]

Lazy jacks will most likely keep the main sail cover from fitting correctly.
Lazy Jacks don't allow anything to slip under the boom/sail because the fittings to make the Lazy Jack work are riveted or drilled and self tapped to the SIDE of the boom. Thus creating a 'road block' to slipping the sail cover under the boom and fastening it. The cover will never lay right unless it is coped out for these fasteners.

I thought about it but it is just too many lines and bungee cords up there. "For every pound up there you need 15 pounds in the keel." Keep it K.I.S.S. and light.

skip.

[MacGyver]

I have witnessed first hand the aggravation of that on a 16.
What I did, what took a picture with my main up all the way, and the boom secured so that I could take a picture having the whole rig in the picture.
Then i took and printed it out on a 8.5 by 11, so that the height of the sail/mast and the boom width with sail was all showing.
I then took a blank piece of paper and traced the sail. then cut it out and made sure it fit in the sail on the picture.

WHY?? LOL well, I wanted to be sure that the planned route of the jacks would contain the sail properly and also not get in the way of the battens and also serve as a topping lift if I wanted.

That is when I drew with pencil and a ruler from a point on the mast  (I had 3 picked out) and a point on the boom. That way I could see as I raised and lowered the sail on paper I could see at what points I had interference.

Then I would redraw the lines, etc.

Once I was satisfied I made it to scale, so the boom I had a measurement of, and that holds pretty true. the mast however is a little out of scale because your picture is taken from a low angle, so you have to work with that a bit.

Use this link for Harkens setup: http://www.harken.com/uploadedfiles/Product_Support/PDF/4058.pdf
This is the instruction manual in PDF format.
You can use their recommendations as a guideline.

Lazy Jacks do have a known issue, wearing on points of the sail...... So how can this be helped? Build your own set of Lazy Jacks from line, and not cables and such. that eliminates hard points, etc.

All that the lazy jacks do is keep the sail in position when dropping, they do cause some issue when raising if not totally heading into the wind.
when used as a topping lift replacer they must reach a bit further back to accomplish a balancing act for the weight of the sail, etc.
When I wrench down on my main sheet to lock the boom in place with only the lazy jacks on, the front of the boom comes up........

I also have those pulleys on my lazy jacks (I got a harken kit and hacked it up to custom make mine, still look like harken made them, but I had the kit for free, so that is why I did all that)
I have noticed no wear on the sail, not under sail have I seen it as a issue...

Making them from lines: Fairly easy task, and I have seen it done on a C-n-C 30, and a couple of other boats smaller than that. A set of stainless steel rings and 3 strand line can make a nice set. Could also use that other line..... which currently is escaping my brain....... I am sure your mainsheet is using that line I am talking about...... GAH!

Anyway, 1/4 inch line is good, a few eye straps, a small cleat, and possibly a small block to run the system back to the end of the boom if you like.

I would gladly help you to figure this out and plan it out, I loved doing mine, and the benefits have outweighed the supposed losses.

Mac

"Lazy jacks will most likely keep the main sail cover from fitting correctly."
Yes this is true, but I am making a new one and incorporating slits to allow the lazy jacks passage so they can stay connected. Despite that issue all last year I still was able to use my old mainsail cover without the mods, without issue.
Lazy Jacks don't allow anything to slip under the boom/sail.
Not quite sure what you mean there...... it isnt a loose footed main, so that isnt a issue,
"I thought about it but it is just too many lines up there."
It is when taking it down and setting it up, can be a bit much, but it can be made to be easy with some planning.
I frankly would still keep the way I did em on mine even if we had to trailor sail it.

Mac

[tmorgan]

On my Suncat, I studied kits like the one you have found.  I implemented my own with just one set of blocks and just four line attached to boom.  I ran the control line along the boom back to the cockpit.  Best thing I've added to my boat!

[Craig]

If you set them up properly,lazy jacks do not cause a serious problem with the sail cover. Have had em on my last four boats and unless one is OC about the neatness of the sail cover they are not really an issue. My Horizon Cat has a Mack Pack system which integrates the lazy jacks with the sail cover. We do not have a topping lift but have a Boomkicker  that supports the boom when we drop the sail. The system works like a charm and makes raising and lowering sail singlehanded a breeze. Highly recommended but not the cheapest system.

[Billy]

As for rubbing the sail......
Isn't that why they have adjustable blocks? So you can let out all the slack when under way and they fall down and forward out of the way on the sail.

Then before you drop the main, just tighten the jacks back up.

That way there is no interference with the sail and the lazy jacks.

[MacGyver]

Billy,
I guess one could do that but I really havent seen when under way that it is a problem.... and to be honest over the years I have talked with people since most of the time I adjust them when I am installing them and they dont even change where I adjust them.

Even after I installed my own, I think I adjusted em only because I wanted to see what they changed as we went......

One other way to assist with it is to use a bungee cord from the jack points to the stays, it would pull them out away from the sail automagically, but even that I dont think is needed... maybe with a loose footed main? or more of a belly kind of sail....

Mac

[CaptRon28]

Dropping the large gaf rigged main on my Horizon was a real nightmare singlehanded. It is very easy to rig lazy jacks. And you don't need an expensive kit. Some 3/16 or 1/4 inch line, four eye straps, two small blocks and one cleat. Cost me maybe $50 and made a difficult job much easier. After the sail is down and tied, you can release the lazy jack line to get the sail cover on. Absolutely no pulling or abrasion.

[Cevin c Taylor]

Thanks for the info.  I'm not too concerned w/ the sail cover issue.  I keep my boat on a trailer, and I think I've only used the sail cover once.  Most times I sail it's in the water and then out.  MacGyver - I'll probably take you up on the offer for some help once I have some time to look into things a bit more. Thanks for your detailed response. 

[Cevin c Taylor]

I ended up buying the Nautor package.  It's worth it to save the time of trying to assemble things myself.  Just a note, on their e-bay website, most of the things have the "make an offer" option.  It appears that if you enter a price that is 85% or higher of the price, it automatically accepts it.  So, there is a like a 15% discount built in.  The also offer free shipping for orders over a certain amount (I believe it's $90).

[EclipseGuy]

I think you will be very happy with Lazy Jacks. I have had several sailboats with Lazy Jacks and I find the convenience of the lazy jack system outweigh the inconvenience for me, especially when sailing short handed. I eventually plan to add them to the Eclipse.

I did occasionally have a batten catch in the system when raising the main, however it was usually as simple as backing off the main halyard a little bit, then pulling it back up. If that doesn't work then it is easy enough to reach the batten and just push it out of the way on a such a small boat. In fact you will be standing right there where the back part of the Lazy Jack is while you pull the halyard.

Not having the main fall all over the cockpit when I lower it is a big help, especially when dropping the main in a busy area (like near the entrance to a marina).

One of the sailboats I owned in the past had a standard mainsail cover and it did not have custom slits for the Lazy Jack system. It was that way for years before I bought the boat, and stayed that way while I had it. It didn't cause any problems, and the mainsail was properly protected from the sun when the cover was on. Here is a picture of it so you can see what the cover looks like without slits cut for the Lazy Jacks: