Main sheet handling, making a change

[MacGyver]

One thing I have noticed is the mainsheet gets a twist, so fiddle block might solve that....
BUT
Our mainsheet doesnt let out and in very easy, and it isnt the pulleys from what I can tell....

Somewhere I have seen the mainsheet start at the end of the boom (attached to a single block with becket) then run thru the starboard block (single) then thru the block on the boom end, then to the port side block with line lock.

WHO HAD THIS SETUP?   does it indeed work better since you eliminate some routing of that line?

What would be a downside to running it like this?

all thoughts on this are appreciated, and I have looked thru the other posts, but never saw where I have seen this setup at....... hopefully someone will know.  (Maybe CLR???)

Mac

[Billy]

If I understand u correctly, a downside would be when the boom is way out on a run, it may be hard to grab the end if you needed to trim the sail. Even if it is long enough it could still get moved around.

Having the becket on the stern ensures the end of the mainsheet will always be in the same place.

Just my thoughts.

Have you thought about a mid boom traveler?

[MacGyver]

Yes but the best control is using the A frame, it then controls the rear of the boom giving the best control overall, atleast thats what my boss told me.

The end that you have to pull in is actually at the port side like it is now, but the connection would end on the boom, just one step shorter than normal.....

That one less step I am wondering may help with allowing the boom to move more freely.......

Mac

[brackish]

The alternate routing you describe, if I understand it accurately, will cause you to loose one part in your sheeting ratio making it much more difficult to control the sheet in moderate to high winds.  Mine is difficult now with the normal routing, so much so, that I've considered a 6:1 mid boom sheeting arrangement with a traveller.  I have to work out the details about how it would work with my Bimini because the Bimini will win if it's a choice of either/or.  I would disagree with your boss, the best control comes from a mid boom arrangement with a traveller that allows you to adjust sail shape using the traveller car location.  I've had both, and prefer mid boom.

My main does not adjust out on its own in light air when I'm going down wind.  I just push it out when that is the case.  Sheets in with no resistance though.  Are your transom mounted  blocks on standups with swivels?

[Shawn]

Mac,

That would let the boom run out easier as you would be changing the mechanical advantage. Instead of 4:1 you would be dropping to 3:1 so less line would need to go out to move the boom the same distance as before. On the flip side if means you will need to pull harder to bring the boom in.

Shawn

[Shawn]

" Mine is difficult now with the normal routing, so much so, that I've considered a 6:1 mid boom sheeting arrangement with a traveller.  I have to work out the details about how it would work with my Bimini because the Bimini will win if it's a choice of either/or."

I think a traveller above the companionway would allow the bimini to go to the rear and clear fine. Someone suggested putting padeyes on each side of the companionway and moving the existing blocks there for mid-boom sheeting to clear the bimini. That is an intriguing possibility and it will leave access in/out of the cabin mostly unobstructed.

You would need to work out the force required but I think if you are having problems with 4:1 now and moved to mid boom than 6:1 may not be enough. If you sheeted halfway down the boom I think the force is basically going to double. Say it takes 100 pounds on the end of the boom now... with 4:1 that means you need 25 pounds of force. If you doubled that to 200 pounds with a 6:1 purchase you will need 33 pounds of force on the rope.

Of course if it is on the companionway you could likely end up using the halyward winch if needed.

Shawn

[Salty19]

I wouldn't do the method you've described--would definitely not like a sheet going across the boat like that (interferes with tiller and looses mechanical advantage)

If your port side setup just uses a ring/eye to turn the line into the cleat..those mechanisms are poorly designed and need to go.  had one on our old 16 and it was the source of mainsheet problems for sure.

Also if you are using anything larger than 5/16" line, swap it for 5/16".
What blocks are being used?  Are they too small?

Our swiveling block/cam cleat on the port side coaming (Ronstan) works well but when the block there on the coaming twists a bit (say when jibing from a run to a reach), the block needs to be manually turned a bit to let the sheet out smoothly. It's annoying but not a big deal the majority of the time.

In higher winds this is never a problem.

We are using a 50 series Harken double block on the boom.  This block is a little bit larger than standard but gives plenty of clearance for the line to zing through them.

Note in lighter wind when you're trimming for a run, you'll have to uncleat the mainsheet and manually push the boom over.  No getting around that on most boats.

Let's see a pic of your setup.  Who knows what prior owners have changed.

[Billy]

I think a traveller above the companionway would allow the bimini to go to the rear and clear fine. Someone suggested putting padeyes on each side of the companionway and moving the existing blocks there for mid-boom sheeting to clear the bimini. That is an intriguing possibility and it will leave access in/out of the cabin mostly unobstructed.

you talking about this?

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=4908.0

[brackish]

You would need to work out the force required but I think if you are having problems with 4:1 now and moved to mid boom than 6:1 may not be enough. If you sheeted halfway down the boom I think the force is basically going to double. Say it takes 100 pounds on the end of the boom now... with 4:1 that means you need 25 pounds of force. If you doubled that to 200 pounds with a 6:1 purchase you will need 33 pounds of force on the rope.

I wasn't clear, it is not the effort required to pull the mainsheet but the effort to uncleat and recleat from whatever position I'm steering from in the cockpit.  My Columbia 8.7, a 29' boat with a much larger mainsail had mid boom, 6:1 bridgedeck mounted with traveler and I never had a problem with it.  I think the location of the mainsheet cleat, lower in the cockpit on the bridgedeck would make that angle better and easier to control.   I like to sit a little forward and use a hiking stick and that would put me closer and further increase the angle.  Also would allow the helmsman to always look forward.  Of course, an additional advantage is not having that sheet draped all over you or getting a line part under the tiller when running downwind.  The primary disadvantage often cited is blocking the main companionway, however, on that same 8.7 that was never an issue.  When docked or anchored, we just moved the boom to one side on the traveler. 

[Shawn]

Brackish,

Understood. Another option you might consider is a different type of cleat. I used Spinlock PXR cleats on my Flying Scot for the jib sheets. They were at the front of the cockpit (on the deck) and I could uncleat/cleat them from anywhere in the cockpit.

" The primary disadvantage often cited is blocking the main companionway, however, on that same 8.7 that was never an issue.  When docked or anchored, we just moved the boom to one side on the traveler.  "

My concern is two young children that climb in/out of the cabin dozens of times while sailing. A traveler in that situation would be in the way and also be a potential for little fingers to get hurt.


Shawn

[skip1930]

Very old discussion for a very real problem.
Main sheet twists on the boom and yes it does not deploy very easy. Get rid of that four purchase side by side block and buy an inline four by four purchase block, your problems will be nil.

Here is a pic of the inline block on the end of the boom. Note the 'Lazy Jack imitator' hung from the back stay. It's just a wire rope, two clamps, a quick disconnect that fits the hole at the end of the boom, a EZ pull lanyard and a wee bit of PVC tape.

skip.

[MacGyver]

I FOUND IT! LOL 
I took the picture at CLR, it is Lafayette Bruce's boat, mainsheet setup 

See how on the center (boom) block, it is a single with becket, then runs to starboard block, then back to boom block, then to the port block, then thru cam cleat?

This is what I am thinking about doing, I have a original setup, dual block on the boom.

Any thoughts?
Mac