Buying a new Main advice

[GaryHGnade]

I have a 1999 Com-Pac 16 CB and am going to be buying a new Main. Purchased the boat this year. Returning to sailing after a long time. Only sailed borrowed boats in the past. My first and probably my last boat. We shall see.

I could get a standard issue pre-made sail, or I could get a custom sail for not that much more.

I will be sailing inland lakes, the great lakes and maybe some coastal day sailing and cruising.

I have been talking with several lofts and some of the suggestions they are asking bring up a lot of questions. So I'm looking for the wisdom of this group to help me out.

Here are few to start:

Weight of the cloth 3.9, 4.9, 5.9? heavier is good right, but how heavy gets too heavy?

Battens all full or top full and the rest shorter?

Luff bolt rope or slides? Current has boltrope and I have little trouble with it. Seems like that would make a cleaner leading edge. A good thing I think.

Foot my current sail has a boltrope but some are suggesting loose, easier to rig and un-rig and more sail and easier to shape?

Roach, Standard or Racing? Since we don't have back stay we could add a bit of sail which sounds good unless it will add too much weather helm.

Anything else I should consider or recommendations  of sailmakers?

I really appreciate your help.

Gary

[Salty19]

Just an opinion..take it for what's it worth.

Full batten, loose foot, slugs on leech, 2 reef points is what I went with after thinking about it waaay too long.  They perform well.  Ask the CLR sailors tailing behind us all weekend
I would go with a racing reef, but you're point about weather helm is important.  We use a foiled rudder so weather helm wasn't a problem before or after sail change.  A little bigger jib will offset it too.

Ask Shawn and Bob23 about reefing rings.  They seem like a much better setup than reefing grommets.  Wish I had 'em.

As for weight.  Heavy fabric will perform poorly in light wind.  Light fabric will stretch /wear in high wind.  Go with a weight that you think you'll need the most depending on wind strength where you plan to sail. Either way you go it's a compromise.  Sounds like you should go heavier, maybe 5-6oz for the Great Lakes, but I'm no expert here.  Tell your sailmaker about your conditions and they will suggest the right weight.  If you have big pockets and are serious about sailing, get two..one light and one heavy for different conditions.  Very few do that though. it's not like these are racing boats.

National sails are nice.  Many here use them and are very happy.  Great quality and fast service. We have 4 of their sails now.  North sails are also very good.  Frankly there are many good sailmakers out there.  Go with one you feel understands your needs the best??  Stay away from Kelly Hanson (read more about them on here and on the net).  I had FX sails on my old 16. Compared to national, they are not as nice and slower service. 

By the way, is your boat red?  If so, it was for sale here awhile back.  Very nice boat!  The CB's are rare.  Does it have lifelines?

[GaryHGnade]

Thanks for your opinion Salty 19. I too am wondering if I am over thinking this, but maybe that's part of the fun. And since I don't plan on buying another Main for a long time, I want to get this right. Although I know everything is a compromise.

I'm wondering about the weather helm. I have the stock blade rudder and have to say I have not been concerned about the weather helm, so if I got a bigger sail and had more weather helm then I wanted you think getting a foil rudder would fix the problem? it sound like every one thinks the foiled rudder is a big improvement.

Also would like to know why you chose slugs on the leach?

how do I ask Bob and Shawn about the reefing rings?

Any other opinions out there?

Gary

[GaryHGnade]

Salty19,
I see there are some others talking about new sails recently as well so there was some discussion there. I sent a note to Bob23 and Shawn about the reefing rings.

And BTW my boat is not red, that would be nice, but I have a white hull and no life lines. When you said it was rare to have a CB, do you know how many there were actually made?

Thanks,
Gary

[JBC]

Sailing Texas has a video taken some years back of a ComPac 16 with full-batten main and foil rudder.  I think this is the link to the page that has the video:  http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99compac16.html  

It should be noted that this is a MKI 16, so no bow sprit, like the later versions, which threw the jib forward 11" and with a main with slightly different dimensions.  I have a '90, and assume the '99 is similar on these two points?  I have both a stock and foiled rudder, and since I owned an earlier version ('80), can say that the foil worked better on the older boat to reduce weather helm than the newer one with the bow sprit...so maybe the foil is not as critical on later models with bow sprits, especially ones with a CB like yours, to reduce weather helm and point higher.

In any case, my first sail upgrade will be a full battened main with loose foot, but with slugs (on the luff!).  I have a furler for the jib which I'm very happy with for cruising.

Jett

[Pacman]

That video of David Culp's C-16 is great.

That boat is moving well on all points of sail and it is not heeling too much.

Looks like new full batten sails are the way to go. 

I read elsewhere that David Culp's sails came from National Sails.

Thanks for the link to that video. 

It is a "must see" for C-16 owners considering new sails.

[GaryHGnade]

Hey, that little film is great.
Does look like full battens are the way to go.

I do have the bowsprit and the CB, so those would probably help with the weather helm.  I'm not replacing my head sail yet. I have a furling 110 I'm guessing. Can always add some sail up front also. Still not sure about the rope or slugs on the luff. Several of you have said you have, or would have slugs on a new Main. Can you tell me why? What is the benefit?

Thanks,
Gary

[Billy]

Don't know why you would put slugs on the leech
but slugs on the luff allow you to drop the main sail easier. with the slugs you can flank the main over the boom, using the slugs as guides. With a bolt rope you really can't drop the sail w/out taking the main off the mast. Then it falls onto the deck. My old 16 had a rope on the luff and I hated it. You will get lots of different opinions about the foot (loose or not) and battons (full or not) but I would definitly go w/ slugs over the bolt rope on the luff.

I don't have full battons so I cannot speak about it but it does seem like it would help the sail maintain its shape.
I have Rolly Tasker sails that I really like. It has a bolt rope on the foot that I only put into the boom slot in heavy winds. It has a slug at the clew that I run through the boom track to the outhaul and that works great! It really reduced the weather helm. I feel like that setup is the best of both worlds. My old 16 was loose footed (foot had some roach in it and went below the boom). It worked ok I guess but I like my current set up better.

Sounds like you know all the pros and cons, just need to decide what is best for you, except for the bolt rope on the luff (and leech).....don't do it!

[kickingbug1]

   get the slugs. i have had both. the slugs are the only way to go

[Bob23]

Slugs. Not the slimey kind that crawl all over the ground that you step on barefoot while taking the trash out at night. Yuk!!!!
I have a sail track stop on the mast just above the slot where one would feed the sail in. The lower slugs have a thin line lacing so it allows the main to drop and stack up on the boom. There is a name for this that my sailmaker used but I don't remember what it is.I wish I had some photos of this.
bob23

[GaryHGnade]

OK my mistake slugs on the luff only. Obviously Ha. but thanks for the insites.

[Beckeresq]

Newbie here in New Jersey who has been watching for a while and learning.

I also plan on adding slugs to the mainsail luff of my "new" (1980) CP . Any guidance on the suggested slug size 5/16, 3/8 or 1/2? My sail stop is the standard 1/2, but I was wondering whether a smaller slug would make hoisting and lowering easier.  I don't have grommets and was planning to use 5/8 plastic screw shackles, unless that's not the suggested way to go.

[Bob23]

Beck:
   Welcome! I don't think a smaller slug would make it easer...maybe harder because of less slug area. Better to keep the sail slot in the mast smooth and waxed. I'm sorry but I don't know what a 5/8" plastic screw shackle is so I can't help you out with that one.
   Where in NJ do you reside? I'm in Southern Ocean County and sail on Barnegat Bay.
Bob23

[wes]

My life was changed when I squirted SailKote (aerosol dry lube) into the slot from top to bottom. The slugs pretty much leap into the slot and hoist themselves now. Highly recommended - Defender stocks it. Awesome for genoa tracks too. Once or twice a season will do it.

Wes

[Bob23]

Leap into the slot and hoist themselves? C'mon, Wes. Maybe that ain't just a cigar your'e smokin'!
Yup...Sailkote does work well. Lubing the slot makes all the difference in the world.
Changed my life? I'm afraid it takes more than that but it does make the sail hoisting and dropping easier.
bob23