Potential new CP 16 Owner: talk me down?

[OldJackPine]

Hi all,

New guy here.  Glad I found this site.  I have been reading the posts for the past several hours.  I am posting to get some opinions from folks with experience in repairing/rescuing sailboats.

My story: I am looking at a cheap CP 16 (guy said it was a '74) suffering the effects of neglect through as many as 10 Wisconsin winters.  My 12 daughter wants badly to get into sailing and I want badly to get into it with her.  I have a lifetime of experience in small boats and enough casual experience with sailing (and some helpful sailor friends) that I think I can make a go of it.

The boat in question has what looks like pretty severe ice damage to the keel from water seeping in from the cabin and freezing (see photos below... that's a twig in the foreground of the first pic). 





The top of the cement ballast, from what I can see in the cabin looks very solid.  I am pretty good with my hands and I have experience with West System epoxies from building and repairing canoes.  Against my better judgement I am thinking about taking on this boat as a winter project.  I am assuming at a minimum that I would need to cut out and remove all the loose material, rebuild the ballast, and build up the damaged portion of the outer hull with several over-lapping layers of epoxy-impregnated fiberglass cloth.  I am hopeful you all might give me a little advice.  My questions include:

1. How do you know when the damage is too severe to repair? Could the structural integrity of the keel be too compromised?

2.  I am considering turning the boat over to make it easier to work on (well braced, of course).  Is there any danger of the ballast coming loose and simply falling out?

3.  The manual makes it look like a fairly simple operation to remove the deck.  Just take off the rub rail and unscrew the 2 pieces.  This does not seem to be a common practice among the restorers on this forum.  Why?  Seem like it would make rebuilding the interior much easier - in addition to making it easier to roll over for work on the keel. 

Thanks in advance for any helpful advice.

OJP

[KPL]

Define cheap.  Also, what is your time worth?  you can pick up a decent cp16 for under $2k.  Are you going to spend more of your time and effort and resources than that?

Anything is repairable, the question is VALUE.  is it a good VALUE?  If it will be a project for you and your daughter, it may be well worth it.

The CP 16 is a great boat, no doubt.

Kevin

[OldJackPine]

Sorry.  Cheap means $750 in this case.  At least that's what the owner is asking.  Includes sails, mast, boom, rudder, cushions, and trailer.  No outboard.

OJP

[Tim Gardner]

Offer him $375.  Unless someone does the work you describe - its an anchor.  Removing the deck, and the ballast will get you access and allow the best possible repair.  A lot of work, but it could be a fun way to spend quality time with your daughter before she becomes a dreaded teenager.

TG

[makedevine]

Don't have any hesitation removing the deck, just support it with a couple of 2x4's every couple of feet to keep it level and not racking. The pop rivets come out with a 3/16 inch drill bit and a little prying between the half's, removing the compression post at the mast step ( theres a screw under the mast step) and cutting the cockpit drain tubes at the stern. Be sure to cut the tubes so you can install a rubber hose after your done over the cut. Check the condition of the bulkheads and bunk for rot while your in there. Removing the deck makes it easy to do repairs. The one nice thing about doing the repair is that when your done you'll know what condition the boat is in and not have to speculate.  It will be a lot of work!  Alot of work!

[Salty19]

Wow that keel is in REALLY bad shape!   The owner should be paying you to take it off his hands, IMO.   Nothing is too severe to fix, the question is how much time, energy and cost will it take to bring it back to standard?

I'm thinking the ballast will have to come out to repair it.  Chances are good it would fall out if inverted, especially when you start cutting away loose fiberglass. I bet it's not as solid as you think it is as the ice has cracked the cement too (or should I say suspect it did).

Another question is what else needs fixing?  Outboards are not cheap.  The trailer needs work.  The rigging, sails, lines, etc are probably old.  Most used sailboats of this size need a grand or more to restore to a state which an owner can be proud, or just to get it on the water. 

I'm with KLP... unless you really ENJOY restoration and are OK with spending probably more on it than finding one in better shape for more initial cost, find one that doesn't need as much work.  However I'm not experienced with restoration of this level at all so I may be overestimating what it will take to restore it.   I sure as heck would not want that project.  It's not like you're getting a $15K boat for $500...just my humble opinion.

P.S.  There are plenty of these boats in MI, OH, WI, IN, to choose from.  I'm in OH, can help you look around for a better example if you want.  In fact there may be one in Columbus for sale..it just sits in the boatyard as far as I can tell, and certainly is in much better shape.

[kickingbug1]

   i would pass that one by----and i did see a 16 along interstate 70 near effingham illinois that might be for sale. and one in carlyle illinois too

[Bob23]

Or, another take on this might be:
  A great time to experiment with making the first daggerboard Compac 16. If one could fashion a lead keel with a slot in the middle, a vertically adjusting daggerboard would be cool...ala Hinckley!
  Mind you, I'm not volunteering!
bob23

[Greene]

So OJP - did you end up buying this one?  I live near Madison as well and I considered it as a winter project too.  I drove by it right after the guy listed it and thought it looked like a hull/trailer that had sat outside unprotected for a long time.  Wisconsin winters just don't treat outside stored boats too well.  I think it is a major project (if that is what you are after) which could be accomplished.  That $375 offer seems pretty reasonable to me.

There are always decent 16's popping up for sale in the area if you keep an eye out.  I purchased our first Com-Pac (1984 CP16/II) right here in Madison for $1800 and it was in far better condition.   



If you do purchase it and need an extra set of hands to help you lift the top off just let me know.

Mike

[buckaroo]

  I purchased our first Com-Pac (1984 CP16/II) right here in Madison for $1800 and it was in far better condition.   

Holy cow.  If your boat is as nice as it looks here, for $1800 you stole it.  How do you sleep at night? ;-)

[Greene]

Yeah it was a pretty good deal.  It helped in the price negotiation when the security guard started yelling at the owner to either remove the boat immediately or it would be impounded.  Seems like this motivated the seller a little.   Puppy Luff looked as good as it did in that picture.  We had onlookers commenting on her everywhere we went.  I wish our 19 was as pretty.

Mike and Brenda