Upwind experts

[LConrad]

Does anybody have good tips for sailing upwind? Shoal draft boats like the CP23 are not known for pointing very high, but I would apreciate any suggestions about how to get upwind as fast as possible.

Racing downwind is great fun. Getting upwind is not as easy. I'll bet there are some experts out there who know how to do it.

[skip1930]

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fassitt/kenealy/kenealy0.html

She'll sail faster then the wind on a nice reach off [ almost abeam ] of the bow, but not so high that you beat into the wind.

She'll sail no faster than the wind going downwind.

skip.

[Bob23]

L:
   Good sails and a foiled rudder are, in my opinion, a must. When I changed my stock aluminum blade to a wood foiled blade, the performance increase was amazing. She pointed higher and came about quicker.
   But the new sails really made a world of difference. As sails weather and stretch, the center of effort (or balance, can't remember proper names sometimes) moves aft which contributes more to heeling than to forward motion. With new sails, on a course that I frequently take, I was able to cut the number of tacks in half compared to when I had my original 1985 sails, which to my laymens eye, looked ok.
   That being said, the 23's are not terribly high pointers and due to the long keel, I find that the current speed and direction's influence on the boat is noticable. However, I find that my 1985 23/2 will point just about as high as some other boats out there. I have no complaints. And, she's a beauty!
Bob23

[CaptRon28]

You can write a book on this topic, and there are a number of them already out there. Bob's suggestion of better sails and rudder are both good ideas. Both of these should contribute maximum lift without adding that much drag. Ditto for a centerboard or dagger if the boat has one. You don't want to use excessive rudder to make up for a poor board or rudder. A clean bottom and clean inboard prop are both important as well.

It is the center of effort, and that term can be applied to either an individual sail or a sail plan (main and genoa) for a sloop. As sails age, they tend to stretch somewhat, and you wind up with it's draft moving further back. The draft is the area of a sail which is curved furthest out and it should be in the forward half of the sail, especially in higher winds (above 12 knots?). Most boats have some sail control lines which can help move this around, including the tension in the halyard, outhaul and correct usage of the traveller if you have one. You can also add a Cunningham that attaches to a cringle near the sails luff a few feet above the boom and to some point near the gooseneck. Tightening this line will help flatten out the sail and move the draft forward. For a sloop, the two sails should be somewhat balanced as a pair. For example, don't use a huge 155 genoa with a smaller or reefed main.

Proper trimming of both sails is also critical to sailing upwind. You want to balance the sail plan and wind up with a little weather helm. Keep and eye on any tell-tales, and install them if you don't have any, on the jib's luff and the main's leech. Use the traveller and vang if you have either. Both will help keep the boom down as the wind increases. Both sails should be a little flatter in higher winds and using just the sheets won't work. If the genoa car or block is track mounted, you can adjust the attack angle by moving the car forward or aft. This will allow or stop any twist in the sail by changing the forces applied to the top and bottom of the sail. Forward will shift the force upward, rearward will shift it towards the foot. Depending on the size of the mast, there could be a significant difference between the wind's speed and direction at the top of the mast vs the wind at sea level.

Sailing is a combination of an art and science. The above suggestions probably represents about 5 percent of how to do it right. One of the guys I used to sail with was a trimmer on Connor's Stars and Stripes. He was worth about 1 knot of boat speed when he raced with me.

[CaptRon28]

Here's an example of a good main sail trimmed fairly well. It was taken during the first week that I had the trimaran and I've learned a little more about mutihulls since. I drew the black line where the deepest part of the draft is. The curve itself is nearly perfect - looks like an airplane wing looking up. No belly at all. Conditions were close hauled in about 6 knots of wind, boat speed about the same. I probably would ease out the main sheet a drop more now - maybe 6 inches or so, and bring the traveller in to make up for it. Notice the small wrinkles on the genoa leech - I would have moved the genoa car forward around 1 foot as well. The sails are kevlar - which will not stretch at all. Dacron begins it's stretching routine on day 1.

[trektrader]

Not a 23 owner YET but here is an interesting video from SVHideAway who claims better upwind performance with loose footed Mainsail:
(http://www.youtube.com/user/SVHideAway#p/u/28/mwMZhZ6saxc)

[CaptRon28]

Technically, a loose footed main has several advantages. It is easier to trim, maintains a better shape at the foot (especially in less wind), is easier to get on and off the boat, winds up with less chafe on the foot than a bolt rope, is somewhat easier to set up for a reef, etc. Many are built with extra material at the foot to fill the slot between the boom and sail, thereby increasing the sail's area a drop. In theory, it should outperform it's bolt rope foot cousin. But the difference is not that great and it doesn't really pay to convert or buy new if the old sail is decent. Some feel that a bolt rope offers a a stonger attachment to the boom but 90+ percent of the forces are carried by the clew and tack and not the middle of the foot.

Photo below shows the extra material on the foot which effectively closes the boom's slot.

[HideAway]

I agree Ron on most of what he said about the loose footed main.   I would not change out a good main sail for the sole purpose of getting a loose foot with the shelf.   Instead I converted my existing main sail into a loose footed sail.  Yeah the bolt rope should not be there, but I ve noticed it does form a bit of a shelf anyway.  It s not hard to do but you will need at least a three part tackle and should run the out haul line well forward on the boom.  We also have a Cunningham.

The difference in performance is amazing.  HideAway points much better and is faster.  My helm is balanced and quite often does not need tending.  My self steering device made of a heavy spring and some line steers the boat for long distances whereas before the conversion my self steering device was like power steering on a car and you dare not leave it alone.   5kn is easily attainable.  When beating in high winds the weather helm returns with a vengeance and reefing is required.

I should note that we have a very old sail that will be replaced -- see the video Return from Pine Island - What a trip !

http://youtu.be/ZpvLNsHH7oo        This is a long video so grab a brew

When we do finally save enough boat dollars we will get a proper loose footed sail with the shelf.   

[brackish]

Great video Matt.  A few questions.

When you say "far forward on the boom" is that so you can reach it to adjust no matter your point of sail?
Several lights on your stern rail.  Are those solar area lights?
Pine Island? where is it?  It is not the same one that is across from Captiva is it?  Just back from there and visited a number of Islands including Cabbage Cay, but not Pine Island, but was told it was beautiful.  Must be a different Pine Island?

I did leave I-75 on the way back and drove up I-275 across the bridge.  Enjoyed that, wished there was more time to drive around.  Did make my way up the big bend the slow way and thoroughly enjoyed the tour.

To veer toward the topic, I find that my 23 does not like to even come close to being pinched and I'll fall off a little giving up a degree or two for speed and less heel.  Seems like I do better overall toward the mark with that approach.

[CaptRon28]

Lets get the terminology down first. A shelf on a main sails foot is usually a piece of somewhat ligher weight fabric that is sewn into the bottom edge so the rest of the sail can assume a better shape. This usually calls for slides ever foot or so, but I've seen them with bolt ropes as well. A bolt rope can work because 95 percent of the forces are at the fore and aft corners. Some loose footed mains have extra material sewn there as well, but I'm not sure if anyone has officially called it a shelf. Both will increase the sails square footage, and thereby the forces acting on it.

The real advantages of loose footed mains include things other than performance gains, which theoretically exist as well. Threading a bolt rope into a boom can be one pain in the ___. You can slide a loose footed clew's back with the rest of the sail pointing almost anywhere. There's also less friction in controlling the foot's shape with the outhaul. And the sail can have a better shape if the trimmer knows what he's doing.

Anyone replacing a worn out main sail should talk to their sailmaker about replacing it with a loose foot. Converting an existing bolt rope sail to a loose foot may not work as well. If the sail has seen better days, it's not going to help you.

The Pine Island I deal with is at the southern edge of Charlotte Harbor, SW coast of FL. Anyone sailing there should look for a trimaran with gold (kevlar) sails. The Horizon has become the NJ summer boat, usually in Barnegat Bay. I expect to be down in FL the 3rd week of October.

[LConrad]

Thanks for the replies.

Falling off a bit seems to help.  Maybe keeping that short keel pointing down gives more lift. It is just so tempting to pinch when looking at other boats. I managed to do that on Saturday and got three firsts in four races. It also helped to have a small fleet to get lucky on the wind shifts. Anyway, I pinched on Sunday, guessed wrong on the wind and fell to second on both races.

Maybe sewing a new sail this winter will help next year. Just not enough time this year.

With respect to falling off, what apparent angle would you normally see on the wind indicator? About how many degrees from straight ahead?

[brackish]

With respect to falling off, what apparent angle would you normally see on the wind indicator? About how many degrees from straight ahead?

Getting way to technical for me.  I set the headsail about four inches off the spreader, and sail the telltails so that the inside is on the verge of being unstable, but the outside is streaming.  Main sheeted in hard then released so that it is just short of luffing at the top.  Can't say that is right, but feels so.

I often think, but don't know for sure that, mid boom sheeting with a traveler would help.

Racing a Com-Pac 23? never thought of that.

[HideAway]

I put the out haul cleat just before the companionway so I don t have to dance with the devil on the transom to adjust it.  It really saved the day on the Pine Island trip..   Our Pine Island is just a bit west of Mac Dill AFB and a bit north of Apollo Beach on Tampa Bay.  It is really a spoil island formed from dredging the channel into the Port Of Tampa.  It is very popular but there are much better places to go   - just none near Tampa.  The Pine Island down near Ft Meyers is much better as are the islands north of Dunedin.

The lights on the rail are solar.  They give just enough light to the cockpit at night to see but they require a full day in the sun to last the entire night.  Besides I think they look cool.

In one of Bruce Bingham s classes he spoke of the foot forming a shelf that in theory keeps the air flowing over the sail rather than falling off of it.  I can t imagine it makes much difference but then Bruce won boat of the Year and Cruising boat of the year so I defer to him.   And yes, Compacs do not like to pinch- they slow right down if you do- I found the loose foot does let you get closer before you stop-- They also like to head up in gusts which is a real help-- we zig and zag a lot heading up wind with out tacking.  We haven t done this recently but using the genny and a reefed main seemed to help as well -- Matt

[HideAway]

Brackish -- As you went over the Sunshine Skyway bridge coming from the south you may have seen some islands with a water tower on the north west side.  That is Ft Desoto Park and just a bit north of there is Boca Ciega Bay and our sailing club. The northern most bridge you went over is the Misner Bridge which we pass under on the way into Tampa Bay.   I don t think we have sailed HideAway under the main span but I once took my Sea Pearl under it-- that was a real eye opener. The wind blows straight down - no wonder people say it s haunted!  Matt