Looking for a Sunday Cat to see and sail

[johnmcneely]

I am considering moving up from a Potter-15 to a Sunday Cat. I've owned the Com-Pac 16 and 23. The Potter-15 and Sunday Cat are very different boats. I've studied the Sunday Cat and, on the surface, think it would be a good fit. I've sailed a Picnic Cat, but of course it is very differently ballasted than the Sun Cat and its variants. I may not be able to afford a brand-new Sunday Cat with trailer and since they are very new and it will be a while before there are any used ones on the market and prices come down.

I am in the research phase of this and do not want to work with dealers. I also don't want to make any mistakes. The experience on the Picnic Cat was an eye opener. It was on a broad reach in winds just under reefing speed and a 2-foot chop. Perhaps a larger Catboat more heavily ballasted would have been different.  It would be a mistake to buy a boat that I don't like to sail. I'm 54 years old, and I'd like this next boat to be the last one.

I live in the Denver area. I'd like to find preferably a Sunday Cat or failing that a Sun Cat as near to Denver as possible that I could go see and sail with the owner. This has been done for me already by a Picnic Cat owner. I appreciated their assistance. Is there any one on this forum that could help me? Or, knows of someone I could contact for this kind of help? Thanks.

[Bob23]

John:
   Have you considered a 19? You should sail on one before making your decision. The 16 and 23 share the same designer and have the same underbody shape whereas the 19 has a flatter underbody which translates to less intial heel. I own a 23 and really love her. But I've been on 19's and it is nice to experience less intial heel. I've only sailed on a 16 once and only for a short time so I can't comment on the feel. I think with a 19, one might not have to reef as early as a 23. I find that if I delay reefing in my 23, the performance suffers, we heel way too much, and the ride gets wetter.
   I'm curious: What did you like and not like about the 23?
  Good luck in your search!
Bob23
   

[Tom Ray]

It's going to be hard to find a Sunday Cat, let alone one near Denver.

You may have to deal with a dealer. I happened to notice one for sale here in Florida:

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/14927

That boat is a 2010, and Com-Pac has been making 2011's for months now. Down the street, Gulf Island Sails (where I used to work) has a 2011 in stock.

I have been in that situation, and when the dealer up the street has the current model year boat and you have last year's boat, you discount the boat as necessary to make it go away. If you do not, the finance company that actually owns it gets really nervous and basically forces you to make it go away.

Also, that 2010 has a white hull. You will never see a white Sun Cat in stock at Gulf Island Sails because we discovered that they are darn near impossible to sell. (I prefer white, but own a blue one, go figure.)

In a nutshell, Paul up at Masthead has to get rid of that boat, and will be somewhat negotiable on his already discounted price. Florida is a long way for you to go for a boat, but I sold one to a guy in Oregon!

[johnmcneely]

Hi Bob23:

My employer would not move the 23 from Central Texas to the Denver area. It was a wonderful boat but it would have been too much boat for the smaller lakes in the Denver area. I had never bought a trailer for it so I would been forced to do that as there is no permanent wet slipping in this area. Boats have to come out before the lakes freeze over in Winter. I remember the 19 and its different shape. I don't recall Com-Pac selling many of them and I don't remember why.

What attracts me to the Catboat is the salty look yet simplicity of handling after you get to know the gaff rig and how to adjust its trim. What I like is about the Sunday Cat is the little mini-cabin with the larger cockpit. For me, it makes for a better trade off since I don't tend to use the cabin for anything other than storage and those rare instances when I need shelter. I'm not a camping out enthusiast, but the private potty is a big plus. Yet it is clear from these forums that the Catboats are not light-air performers without a Drifter and they don't probably point as well as a sloop-rigged sailboat. The benefits would have to outweigh these limitations. Except for last Summer when winds in the Denver area were ideal, for most of the last 20 years, they die off mid day in the heat; misery without a Bimini and a small fan. But I suppose I could leave the mast and boom on the Gallows and putter around with the trolling motor (no gasoline motors permitted where I sail) with the Bimini up. In contrast, the Potter-15 starts sailing if you exhale in the direction of the sails. But, you will reef one sooner than a ballasted boat. I turned over a Potter-15 once and it was not a pleasant experience. In the Potter's defense, it was not because I drove it "beyond the chine" on to its side. I was moored when a nasty gust knocked it down. My guess is the ballasted Catboats would be far harder to turn over and thus more stable.

Thanks for your answer.

John

John:
   Have you considered a 19? You should sail on one before making your decision. The 16 and 23 share the same designer and have the same underbody shape whereas the 19 has a flatter underbody which translates to less intial heel. I own a 23 and really love her. But I've been on 19's and it is nice to experience less intial heel. I've only sailed on a 16 once and only for a short time so I can't comment on the feel. I think with a 19, one might not have to reef as early as a 23. I find that if I delay reefing in my 23, the performance suffers, we heel way too much, and the ride gets wetter.
   I'm curious: What did you like and not like about the 23?
  Good luck in your search!
Bob23